Miguel de Icaza: You are disgusted

Image taken from Wikipedia

I inform you before you read: This is a post where I will reflect my very personal opinion. If someone admires or defends the ideas of Miguel de Icaza and you may be offended by what comes next, I advise looking to the side.

From the outset, right now I don't know why I'm writing this post, especially when I already left what I think about this character well reflected in this other. Miguel de Icaza needs no introduction, perhaps his greatest recognition has been being one of the founders of the GNOME project, a project that apparently erased from his memory and everything that it philosophically represented.

That the guy had opted for OS X We already knew it, but you have to have a very tough face to criticize something of which he himself has been part.

As he tells us in su Blog, took a Mac one day to go on vacation to Brazil and everything worked, I could suspend and restore the laptop without problems, the audio always worked as well as the WiFi, he did not have to recompile the kernel to adjust "this or that", he did not have problems with the video drivers and did not have any signs of suspicious slowness than if he had on his Thinkpad.

And finally, it comes to us with the excuse that there is fragmentation in Linux as a platform, multiple incompatible distributions, and incompatibility between the versions of the same distro.

I am not going to go into the details of why in OS X things work or not, I already talked about that in my other post, but let me tell you Don Icaza, that in the Netbook I had a weeks ago, and in the Dell Vostro that I have now, if I have had problems of the type you mention (I haven't had them) the only one to blame for it has been me.

To Miguel de Icaza I say: Problems can present anyone who uses a Rolling Release distribution, or who updates constantly, but in general GNU / Linux more stable can not be. I say this from my experience, with the hardware that I have tried in these 7 years of use.

Also sir, you better than anyone should know that, while your OS X is focused on only one type of hardware, GNU / Linux It tries to cover a much wider range, and many times for devices to work, you have to do reverse engineering, because as we all know, we are not part of that Monopoly that companies like Apple and Microsoft dispute.

But without wanting to extend myself further: does OS X work well for you? Congratulations, enjoy Macbook or whatever you have, that before my eyes (and even if he doesn't give a shit) he is nothing more than a hypocritical traitor. You are one of those who started from the bottom, fighting for a cause and ended up on the opposite side. Enjoy your dark side, strength is with me 😛

Sincerely, Miguel de Icaza you are disgusted.

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  1.   f3niX said

    Everyone is free to select the OS they want to be proprietary or not, the real error they had was having said that Linux does not work on the desktop, "It will not work for it", since many of us apply it, I even find myself programming in java a billing application for the simple fact that in my business I have passed the machines to Debian Stable and I do not get any billing app that works well for me, but for the rest of the applications the secretary, and the rest of the guys joined perfectly .


    1.    SAM said

      This question is for everyone: Did you read the Icaza blog article?

      Because what he says is "To me, the fragmentation of Linux as a platform, the multiple incompatible distros, and the incompatibilities across versions of the same distro were my Three Mile Island / Chernobyl."

      He never says it doesn't work, and if someone interprets it that way, they have to clearly see that he says "For me."

      Yes, the last line says "Linux just never managed to cross the desktop chasm.", Which in Spanish would be "Linux just never managed to cross the desktop chasm"; and the reasons, totally logical, he sets out in the first sentence I cited. It symbolizes the problems Linux has had to cover the desktop market, and this is not his opinion, this is statistical: How much of the mobile device market does Android (read "Linux") cover? o How much of the market for supercomputers (which doesn't need a desktop environment at all) does Linux cover? o How much of the server market does Linux cover? o How much of the market for household appliances and other devices such as routers / wifi access points does it cover? For all the above questions: Quite a bit. But how much of the desktop market does Linux cover? A pittance and it is evidence that he has not been able to cross the "abyss of the desk."

      Do you get me? 😉

      1.    asd said

        Actually, what statistics do you trust? It is impossible that only 1% of computer users use GNU / Linux, I have come across GNU / Linux users even on the micros….
        Just so you know, paper supports everything, especially with statistics,
        If even the morons who show that their antivirus is better, they manipulate the test conditions to make that look true.
        And finally, windows is as difficult as GNU / Linux to use, the point is that it comes pre-installed on the machines, and there is always a moron who knows how to "fix" windows problems and help users of it.
        The problem is simply one of diffusion, due to market force,
        M $ always puts horns and queues in that section, even in schools and there is a lot of evidence of that.
        So that GNU / Linux not winning on the desktop because it does not have enough merit is a COMPLETE FALLACY

        1.    SAM said

          Wikimedia (no, no… Wikipedia no, Wikimedia - third row of the table): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Web_clients
          (quick reference, but you can search anywhere)

          All statistical sources point to the same thing: Linux takes less than 2% of the desktop market (and it grows slowly, but it grows).

          There are many factors, it is not only a lack of marketing (which does have some of this on the part of many companies).

          1.    cold said

            stop defending Icaza, in very linux you are doing the same ...

          2.    Thunder said

            You can do whatever you want, and you don't defend Icaza, you defend an establishment, a claim, and that is that Linux has never crossed the desktop abyss, and only a stubborn, a blind person, or msx would say otherwise.

            Although it may be greater than 1%, it is nowhere near a quarter of Windows' share. It's a shame but it is what it is.


  2.   RAW-Basic said

    Jojojojo ..

    +1 .. ..to the target in the center..x2 .. 😀

    The force accompanies us.

  3.   renelopez91 said

    haha .. I just commented on the KDE article about it ..
    I already said that something like this could not escape them ...
    Greetings ..

  4.   william_oops said

    Totally agree with you Elav. It is easy for everything to work perfectly when your kernel only has to focus on a very specific hardware.

    But also GNU / Linux goes beyond the technical aspects. There are social and communication aspects (communion), "philosophical", it is, if you will, "a way of seeing life." But it is clear that this man only pays attention to technique, which shows his blindness and inability (or perhaps his resentment) to understand and live in the gnu / linux biosphere ...

  5.   McIcaza said


    PS: Beware that now Icaza is saying that he has not said what he said, juaz!

    1.    McIcaza said

      My Xamarin company:

      Now do you understand what this is all about?

      1.    XamarinWea said

        Already, it was all about effective advertising for Xamarin.iOS, which I have to say, has been effective, on the other hand, its language leaves much to be desired, as a Mexican, a total shame.

        1.    DwLinuxero said

          Ole and you using Shit OS at least Icaza has gone to a closed system but DECENT not like that SHIT OS From MOCOSOFT
          In short, you and setting an example

        2.    Phytoschido said

          ↑ This. Not even for Mexican, but that is apart. We already knew that his opinion was not his own and that he went where the money goes. With that history, I don't even know why we are talking about him. De Icaza has always been an irrelevant character for me.

  6.   dhunter said

    Let him go with his monkey to another part and not hump anymore.

    1.    elav said

      That's the other thing ... that effort has been put into replicating .NET, for the shit that is ...

    2.    DwLinuxero said

      Let him go with Marco to look for his mother with his monkey
      "My monkey amelio and I" because that monkey with this moron's monkey would make good friends x'DDD
      P.S. For the record, I have nothing against the framework of the series but that has come to mind now

  7.   Martín said

    Completely agree, and you didn't mention that he contributed to the fragmentation when I created GNOME, beyond the motives, respectable at the time, but that they have changed.

    1.    commentator said

      When Gnome was founded there were good reasons for doing so, don't try to confuse things now.

      1.    DwLinuxero said

        Another who uses Shit OS wing, what will have that OS crap that almost everyone uses?
        I will NEVER use it again, that's an OS joke and more than the 8 what a shit and interface shit is worse than the gnome shell is much better than that SHIT

        1.    Phytoschido said

          The one who is shitting her with his comments is you ...

          1.    YO said

            I totally agree with you, with his comments from Stallman's Religious Fanatic he is already screwing up the forum.

  8.   ferthedems said

    It is normal for OSX to work perfectly. What would be a crime is if it were not, since it is an operating system for a very small hardware universe. To Miguel de Icaza that will seem fine, but to me it seems a way to tie the user not only to the software that you are going to use, but also to the hardware, without any plurality. And many times with lower benefits in relation to its price.

    The Linux kernel, on the other hand, works even in household appliances and covering such a wide spectrum, finding the odd bug is not strange. Although to be frank today and in my personal experience, with more or less new computers most of the installations that I have done supported, without having to configure anything, everything that I have needed. As with Windows, only with the difference that I have not had to be putting a CD with drivers into the computer, since many of these are integrated into the heart of the system.

    The question would be as simple as hardware manufacturers releasing their drivers, contributing to the development of those that already exist, or making their own properly.

    As I say, there is nothing surprising or great about a thing designed specifically for a certain hardware does not cause problems. If it gave them, it would be to kill those who market that product.

    1.    Aleksandr said

      * kerosene powered cheese graters and appliances

      1.    ldd said

        also in washing machines, televisions, cell phones, cooking, microwaves, and I even saw a Linux detergent. 🙂

    2.    Anibal said

      Error, it does not work perfectly. In my office we are 10, 8 have mac. Do you know the amount of times that I hear whores about crashes or strange things!?
      The one who uses it to navigate and nothing but obvious that he has no problems, the one who uses it to work there you can see how it works ...

  9.   SAM said

    Another fanatic post.

    If it were really a personal opinion, instead of a statement, I would say "Miguel de Icaza: You disgust me."

    In MuyLinux they published almost the same as here and Miguel De Icaza responded (in a way that does not seem very correct to me either) like this: https://gist.github.com/migueldeicaza/e2985387a4f0006c99d6

    This place has a certain media power, generating hatred in the community does not strengthen it.

    Calling him a "hypocritical traitor" for deciding to use OSX as his desktop operating system seems quite childish to me, especially if it comes from someone who has not contributed anything to Free Software compared to Miguel De Icaza, speaking of projects, code and report / closure of bugs. (The credit for generating content on the subject is not taken away, but unfounded comments are looked at badly)

    The biggest impediment that the Free Software community has to continue growing is the group of fans who go with hatred to expose passionate claims without reasonable arguments.

    More awareness, more prudence and more love, please.

    1.    elav said

      The first thing I noticed is that, if they did not agree with me, they should not read. 😉

      I have been surprised by the one that Icaza comments on MuyLinux, but it is in all his right. He thinks that MuyLinux is an idiot as I think he is a hypocritical traitor, and not for using OS X, but for attacking GNU / Linux and "its fragmentation" in that way. However, what do you call contributing to GNU / Linux? Throwing lines of code? Because I can tell you that if that is the concept of "contributing" you are wrong. Not everyone fights their battles in the same way.

      Call me a fan if you want, I'm not interested, but I still think the same about Icaza ..


      1.    SAM said

        I said, and I quote: "You do not take away the credit for generating content in relation to the subject, but unfounded comments are looked at badly." 🙂

        1.    Nosy said

          Off topic, where did you get that avatar?

      2.    JuanH said

        Regarding fragmentation, I still don't understand how people (and especially someone like Icaza) don't understand that "non-fragmentation" is totally incompatible with what OpenSource / Free Software means. If someone thinks that the existing software does not meet their needs or believes that they can do better, how do you take away that person's "freedom" not to go their own way? GNOME was born and fragmented for a certain reason. Will Icaza believe that he is the only one who has valid causes for taking directions other than the existing ones?
        Fragmentation due to all of this, besides being healthy (many options to choose from, many options satisfying different needs), is inevitable within free software.
        Then within all the options, the users are the ones who choose and determine which projects are the ones that survive.

        1.    Amen said

          Amen brother!

      3.    McIcaza said

        Regarding fragmentation, I still don't understand how people (and especially someone like De Icaza) don't understand that "non-fragmentation" is totally incompatible with what OpenSource / Free Software means. If someone thinks that the existing software does not meet their needs or believes that they can do something better, how do you take away that person's "freedom" not to go their own way? GNOME was born and fragmented for a certain reason. Will Icaza believe that he is the only one who has valid causes for taking directions other than the existing ones?
        Fragmentation due to all of this, besides being healthy (many options to choose from, many options satisfying different needs), is inevitable within free software.
        Then within all the options, users are the ones who choose and determine which projects will survive.

        1.    McIcaza said

          : )
          Sorry for the double comment. I first posted as "JuanH" but it didn't get published. I thought it was because by first commenting with the ironic nickname of "McIcaza" the site had taken my ip and that's why it didn't leave another nick. The admin can delete one of the comments, or the ones he wants of course:) p

      4.    elhui2 said

        Your response is childish elav, "The first thing I noticed is that, if they disagreed with me, then they shouldn't read." It takes the blog seriously, which in my opinion is very good.

        On the other hand ... «However, what do you mean to contribute to GNU / Linux? Throwing lines of code? Because I can tell you that if that is the concept of “contributing” you are wrong. »… WTF I think that this answer borders on the absurd, the GNOME and MONO projects are the most important in the GNU project. And look, I also think that Miguel de Icaza is an idiot since he became an ally of Microsoft's "Open Source" division.

        Do not post in anger, that only generates poor quality posts like this ...

        1.    pavloco said

          To begin with, GNOME and MONO are not the most important GNU projects and even if they were, that does not detract from the contributions made by Elav and company in Desdelinux.
          On the other hand, what would you think that Elav, Picajoso or Pablo, who are important authors in the world of Free Software blogs, began to write that Linux is rubbish because Linus ignored them to change this or that thing and that apart they were to use Mac because MS Office works better there. That would be at least a hypocritical and contradictory attitude. Because when you get involved with Free Software, you commit to a certain extent to support its development in gratitude for all that the community has given you.
          Miguel de Icaza betrays a community and therefore has to endure its rejection. It's not about what to use or not. These are the people who considered him for his ideals, which I ended up selling to the highest bidder.

          1.    elhui2 said

            NOTE that I have not said that they are the most important, but "the GNOME and MONO projects are the most important in the GNU project" matter of semantics!

            That would be at least a hypocritical and contradictory attitude. Because when you get involved with Free Software, you commit to a certain extent to support its development in gratitude for all that the community has given you. »

            Completely agree, but you also have to separate the ideology from the practical sense, in all my computers (I have 3) I have linux installed, also in a dedicated server and in my personal vps, but for my work I have to use Mac OS X for the compiler for iOS and I use it almost all day, I do not feel that I betray free software.

            Nor do I defend Miguel, on the contrary, for a long time I think he lost consciousness! the only thing I comment is that this article is not very objective!

        2.    elav said

          Your response is childish elav, "The first thing I noticed is that, if they did not agree with me, they should not read." It takes the blog seriously, which in my opinion is very good.

          Is my answer childish? Question of appreciation. The blog will not lose any seriousness for a comment or opinion article that I can make.

          On the other hand… “However, what do you call contributing to GNU / Linux? Throwing lines of code? Because I can tell you that if that is the concept of “contributing” you are wrong. ”… WTF I think that answer borders on the absurd, the GNOME and MONO projects are the most important in the GNU project. And look, I also think that Miguel de Icaza is an idiot since he became an ally of Microsoft's "Open Source" division.

          At no point have I said that MONO or GNOME are unimportant. I am simply saying that many think that contributing something to GNU / Linux is only achieved by programming and that is not true. There are many ways you can contribute to OpenSource without having to write a line of code.

          Do not post in anger, that only generates poor quality posts like this ...

          I have not published with anger, only that some sometimes forget that a blog is going on .. 😉

    2.    Joules said

      I am in favor of what you have exposed.

      I do not understand why they give a news expressing so much hate.

      And I say, can't Miguel de Icaza leave or do whatever he wants?

      It amazes me that those who defend freedom spend their time restricting that of others.

      1.    f3niX said

        It is a personal opinion, everyone thinks what they want to think, elav highlighted it before starting the post.

    3.    kik1n said

      Wow. From what I see, if there is fanaticism or a religious style haha.
      "If you love open source, you are not worth it."

      What if Linus and other developers, from one moment to another. And what if better development for Win or OSX?

      If Linux is very nice, comfortable, but we must not get into fanaticism.

  10.   rho said

    May the force be with us 🙂

    … I just can't stop thinking that one day the guy got tired of compiling and also had the money to buy a mac, and well, he bought it. I particularly don't give a damn if the guy buys a mac ... but my mouth shits. Because there are still more of us, and both Apple and Microsoft continue to copy what this community does. It is one thing to change the operating system… another is to throw shit at what you were because today you are something different.

    Very good article 🙂

  11.   Arthur shelby said

    He's not a traitor, he just went from "indie" to "consumerist", which most of the "Libre Soft" community hates. I love my machines with Linux X Distro and I use an iMac at work and to say that everything works perfectly in OSX is a fallacy, I have not known any version of OSX that does not waste resources left and right, every x time I have to « format it »because it became slow. No combination of OS and Hardware is 100% perfect and whoever claims it lives in absolute denial.

  12.   Sergio said

    How much hate and fanaticism

  13.   peterczech said

    Apple bought Icaza a long time ago .. The work it should have done to annoy Gnome has already been done with Gnome 3. Luckily Linus Torvalds was not tempted in the past ...

    1.    Rafael said

      A note: Miguel de Icaza has not worked for Gnome for a long time and has had nothing to do with the development of Gnome 3

      1.    DanielC said

        Exact!! That Gnome that we follow many in love with is because of this guy, everything about Gnome 3 has nothing to do with him, neither in progress nor in development.

    2.    SAM said

      On my home desktop I have Arch with Gnome 3.6 and Gnome Shell.
      On my laptop I use Openbox with LXDE (Lubuntu).
      I went through almost every environment from KDE to Awesome.

      Gnome 3 with GTK3 and Gnome Shell is the best thing that has happened to Gnome (and GNU / Linux in general) in a long time. I have reason to say so.

      The user experience is simple, eye-catching and effective, and the hardware costs are low, something that is not offered by KDE, Unity, and other desktop environments.

      I don't understand the hatred for Gnome3 (+ Gnome Shell) and the preference for Unity or KDE of some when it comes to full desktop environments. The fans are predisposed to hate what at a glance does not fit them at all without analyzing the whole panorama well, and what I regret is that this hatred somewhat slows down the development of Free Software projects. They praise themselves for being defenders of philosophy but they scare a guy who created and maintained some of the biggest projects and a few smaller ones and, worse still, they scare the projects themselves by claiming it is backward or useless.

      A true defender of philosophy contributes, does not discredit.

      1.    elav said

        I respect your opinion .. Let me ask you a question. How long have you not used KDE? Why say that Gnome Shell has less hardware cost than KDE, as I do not think ... Take the test to see.

        1.    msx said


        2.    frame said

          the performance and consumption of kde is good but in the basic installation without effects, but with the full installation it puts you on a medium-resource pc like a turtle. unlike Gnome 3 which has an excellent performance and consumption ratio in non-modern PCs. bad that despite many gnomes it is still the best desktop linux ux

          1.    elav said

            I have installed on Debian KDE 4.8 and used the kde-full meta-package, and the performance is still excellent. Please, on what basis do you say that Gnome is the best GNU / Linux Desktop Environment? Because you tell me that for you Gnome is the best in the world ok, but come on, if you want we can start comparing both and see the result.

          2.    frame said

            Respeto tu opinión.. Déjame hacerte una pregunta ¿Hace cuanto que no usas KDE? Porque decir que Gnome Shell tiene menos costo de hardware que KDE, como que no me parece… Haz la prueba para que veas.
            @elav that's good material for a post. compare a gnome3 installation and a kde4.8 +1

          3.    Rayonant said

            Well, allow me to contradict you but I am using KDE 4.10 on a netbook with an atom N470 @ 1,83 Ghz, with activated desktop effects and akonadi, and of course it consumes a considerable amount of RAM, but it goes very smoothly, which with Gnome Shell I have never been able to achieve. That you like the environment I respect it (although I do not share it) but that you come to say that it has a better consumption ratio (I doubt it performance and a lot,

      2.    Pedro said

        Strongly agree, you have seemed the most sensible of so much fanatic comment.

        Miguel de Icaza speaks from his point of view as a developer and for the development world and I also agree with his opinion even if he does not use an Apple.

  14.   cooper15 said

    I do not remember well, but once I read that he had been offered a position at Microsoft or that he worked there, it does not matter the case is that this man has always seemed a hypocrite and a sold out, therefore it does not matter what he may think about Gnu / linux.

  15.   migue said

    Linux is freedom, and freedom has to be respected in every sense.
    We must respect the freedom of those who use Linux and also those who have stopped using it and even those who speak ill of Linux.
    The basics of the article are somewhat limited and simplistic but there is some truth, especially on the issue of incompatibilities when wanting to install a modern program on an old linux system. On this subject everyone who uses precompiled packages knows what I mean.

    There are many problems in Linux and if the Icaza article serves to put the clothes in the sun and improve things, it will be very positive for everyone

    Nor should we be angry with Icaza for switching to mac since it is today the best operating system, light years from windows and even from linux itself.

    1.    asd said

      It depends on what you mean by "better", because in security it sucks, far behind even window $

    2.    kike said

      To say that Mac, an OS that works "basically fine" (let's not say incredible) on specific hardware is light years away from Windows and Linux is a real falsehood. It is also clear that modern programs will not work to a greater extent on older systems, conversely they will, or have you seen software designed for Windows 7/8 that works on Windows 98? What has crime is that of Mac, that the software that works in a version of Mac OS X when updating the OS no longer works many times (YOUR operating system on YOUR own Hardware), that's hilarious!

      1.    migue said

        On the subject of specific hardware it is true, but not so much today, let's not forget that the processor of a mac is an intel, (my printer is a hp) and it is bad that the OS weighs us (more than anything the environment desktop) is light years away, this is indisputable and anyone who uses a mac knows it. but there is a fundamental difference it is not free like linux.
        On the issue of security, mac is as insecure as linux, the only difference is in the market share, so it is more appetizing to make malware for mac than for linux, in addition to the belief that the person who uses linux is a person with low resources so it is not in the interest of cyber-thieves.
        On the issue of installing modern software in old operating systems, it is not correct that it cannot be done on mac, nor that it is not on windows, what's more, the latter is the one with the greatest compatibility and let's clarify that win 98 is discontinued and for that reason This is why software developers no longer make their products win98 compatible.
        It would be great that in Linux when a developer when building a package does not have to put the versions of the dependencies of his program (there are times that from one version to another only one line break changes (I exaggerate)) or that when a version is updated the previous one is preserved, they are only ideas of a user 😀

        1.    kike said

          I don't think the Mac desktop environment is the best or the easiest. I think the Windows desktop is much more usable and intuitive, in my opinion. In Linux you can also leave the desktop the same or better than the Mac with its icons and its dock, but that does not make it any easier, faster or more intuitive.

          On the subject of compatibility, it is clear that they are not going to make software that works in Windows 7/8 and that works in Windows 98 at the same time, but then why is the same argument used to criticize Linux? Because a software designed for the 3.8 kernel would have to work in the 2.1 kernel for example? It is just as obsolete.

          Finally, Mac is much more insecure than Linux. Linux was created to work on networks since its inception, its base is security, it was designed for that when it works on large servers, and Mac, although it uses Unix as a base, lacks some security measures of this, not to mention that they have never been concerned with making it safe. This is all apart from the market share you speak of, considering that millions of Linux servers are attacked almost daily.

  16.   Anibal said

    It's okay to choose, but if he says that Linux failed on the desktop, he has a LOT of fault about that

    1.    SAM said

      The course of such a large project cannot be attributed to one person. To say that Icaza is "very much to blame" for something that happens does not make sense when throughout the history of Linux millions of people and thousands of companies have intervened in it (in addition to many external factors).

      The nature of Free Software results in very complex behavior. The paths it takes always depend on many, many factors that cannot be isolated. And, as a good friend of mine says, "Free Software is like science: no matter what you think of it, it works."

    2.    Richard said

      To say that GNU / Linux has failed on the desktop is false… currently there is as much market for GNU / Liux as for Mac OS X

  17.   Rafael said

    Miguel de Icaza has always been controversial. Linux was not widespread when Gnome came out and possibly very few people know what happened when it came out. It was a real Desktop War. Even the distributions took sides, some opting for KDE and others for Gnome.
    Mono is a more recent project and it doesn't take much. Another controversy.
    Now, what we cannot deny is that everything Miguel has done is free software. And mono and monoDevelop keep releasing open licensed versions.
    I am aware of the philosophy of free software, but some of the companies I work for are not. These companies are increasingly betting on .NET (m $ infects everything). Thanks to monoDevelop I have managed to develop pieces of software in .NET, which I had been commissioned to do, from Linux and all with OpenSource software.
    In short, I respect the author's opinion, I subscribe to it in almost everything, although disgust it already seems very strong XD, but I want to state that although controversial and a bit of an asshole, Miguel has contributed a lot to Free Software.

  18.   Windousian said

    In my humble opinion, Miguel de Icaza is a troll, a sold-out, a conceited and an overrated one (in short).

  19.   Ricardo said

    It reminds me of the phrase from a movie: fucking is not missing ... what is missing are investors ... if I give you a mac ... do you use it?

    1.    Windousian said

      If you give me the choice between a Mac and a compatible PC tower of the same price, I choose the latter (it makes me salivate thinking about the piece of cucumber that would be).

    2.    elav said

      Me? Of course I use it, I install a piece of Debian that you shit .. hahaha

    3.    asd said

      I sell it and buy the piece of notebook = P without UEFI

    4.    diazepam said

      Linus uses a Mac ……… .without OS X.

  20.   Rayonant said

    Fuck him, I said, and take the monkey with him. It is better not to talk about this subject, that he go and sell himself to the highest bidder, but that he does not come to blame us (the community) or GNU / Linux in general for his decisions: especially when he himself contributed to that nonsense called Gnome Shell….

  21.   monk said

    Buff, people like this always open. Change layers! haha

  22.   Louis David said

    By the mouth the fish dies …… .Mr. Icaza already spoke.

  23.   Hyuuga_Neji said

    I have to thank Icazas for allowing me to discover LXDE… thanks to his Gnome-Shell it was that I left Gnome xD. If now he wants to earn the alms of Apple well ... there he, to see if Apple wants to buy his Monkey that gives more problems than it solves ... ..

    1.    Morpheus said

      I think Gnome-shell was born a long time after Icaza left Gnome

  24.   anubis_linux said

    +1 you are absolutely right heheheheheh… ..

  25.   Husband said

    Icaza seems to be trying to attract attention. Why? Did I want to be a guru of gnu, then opensource, then .net and finally, Apple?… In the end it is not known what message it wants to transmit. What do we buy an iCosa? Wasn't he going to use Windows 8? Time to ditch linux? Their publications are contradictory, some that were not even one year old. I would like it to have a more coherent line, that at least maintains a posture for a long time. In short, the «who leaves without being thrown out ...»

  26.   eco-slacker said

    Too bad for the lord, he misses it. In fact, he was one of my motivations to follow the path of free software, a Mexican who started one of the most important projects of the movement: GNOME.
    However, in this time using free software I have been moving away from fanaticism, I do not adore Stallman or Linus or Icaza, their merits are good and for that they have earned our respect, but nothing more. They are free to do what they want and to say what they want (like all of us) and because they abandon what they have created does not have to affect us, the community may well survive without any of them, the software free will not stop.
    Bad for Icaza, he knows what is lost, it is not necessary to explain the technical details that make GNU / Linux different from Mac OS, he knows them and still chooses to abandon free software.

  27.   msx said

    «I say to Miguel de Icaza: Anyone who uses a Rolling Release distribution or who updates constantly can have problems, but generally speaking, GNU / Linux cannot be more stable. I say it from my experience, with the hardware that I have tested in these 7 years of use. »

    To elav I say: ñoño shouldianero without knowledge of real RR, not Testing. The only factor responsible for problems with a computer is the one between the computer and the chair. It does not matter if the distro is RR or not if you have the necessary knowledge to know how to configure the distribution correctly.

    I understand De Icaza's frustration regarding the problems that still exist in the GNU + Linux world and his personal desire to use a system that JUST WORKS just works.
    However, he forgets that GNU + Linux runs on the widest variety of existing hardware while Apple machines are created and tested by the same group of developers who select a specific hardware and then handcrafted the software to work intimately with said hardware.

    Therefore it is a rather unfair comparison. Understandable yes, but unfair.
    Also in my particular case for a long time I have not had problems with shutdown or recovery from sleep or hibernation in any of my machines, an MSI laptop, an HP laptop, a generic Intel QuadCore and a generic Intel Celeron where I use elementary OS, Chakra and Ubuntu, Chakra and Arch as the server in the latter.

    1.    elav said

      To elav I say: ñoño shouldianero without knowledge of real RR, not Testing. The only factor responsible for problems with a computer is the one between the computer and the chair. It does not matter if the distro is RR or not if you have the necessary knowledge to know how to configure the distribution correctly.

      Hahahaha .. Yes yes, it is clear that the only culprit is the user, but I am referring to the "possible" instability that may exist in certain cases, when constantly updating or doing it without knowing what we are carrying out ..

  28.   Garbage_Killer said

    I say that Icaza has OS hopping instead of distro hopping: p

  29.   rainbow_fly said

    Just like I said in Muylinux

    Let it go the long way. Let's see if you think a bit and realize where you screw up your ideas

    At the time he spoke on behalf of free soft

    But now is he retiring complaining about technical issues?

    This guy marks fragmentation as a bad thing, because he wants Ñu linux to shut down and handle a unique development model managed by individuals with knowledge of the market who can throw it forward on the desktop. Why? because what he wants is not that people have more possibilities of accessing the knowledge of how the software works, what he cares about is the Technical part of free software. To sum up:

    This guy is an ex-defender of Open Source (just need to see how he talks about LINUX instead of GNU / linux) who has decided that he prefers proprietary software

    Honestly, what he decides to do with his life is up to him. If he is happier depriving himself of liberties, good for him

    But leave comments like "linux could never get ahead on the desktop" "fragmentation is a problem" "I'm happier with mac"

    They are pure marketing for proprietary companies like Microsoft and Apple

    Ready, Ciao Miguelito, nice to meet you, thanks for starting GNOME, and will close the door when you leave

  30.   creeping_death said

    Miguel de Icaza is one of the guys who contributed the most to free software in its early days, I at least have great respect for that. Also, as he says, he still uses linux on his servers. I think there is too much stupid talk from time to time and I think this article is an example of it.

    "Every conviction is a prison"
    Perhaps Icaza has already left that jail.

    PS: It made me laugh to read Icaza trying to be an idiot to everyone ha

  31.   DACCorp said

    You're right, that "difficulty" or "complexity" of the OS is what costs the incredible customization that Linux is capable of, but he should already know that, he is seeing it from the point of view of a normal user. But he is right in one thing, if Linux has not succeeded on desktops it is because there is not a very clear organization in the development in terms of graphic environments, everyone makes their own versions of different environments where there should be but one, few graphic environments but very well supported and friendly for the common developer. Yes, that allows there to be an infinite number of options to choose from, but in most cases, a decent one is not made to perform tasks in general.

  32.   Ferran said

    Infamous role that this individual always has to play, even if he was right in what he exposes, it is not the first time in which he has had to renounce, all to express himself on the fly, and that if without reason, I think the still more, I repeat even if the guy was right. Regards.

  33.   Mark Serrano said

    Totally agree !!

    Sold !!

    They came to the price, sell your ideals for a few more coins, gross!

  34.   BaltazarMC said

    I am not a defender of Icaza or anything like that, but I think the article is a bit exaggerated. Personally, there are things that I find castrating in some distros such as OpenSUSE where I have to be root to use the printer or I cannot hibernate correctly and not only in other distributions, I have tried several for a maximum of 3 months without changing (Yes, that mania that all linuxers give us when we just started). For a normal use PC I prefer something easy like Linux Mint, Fedora and such distros. As you say, Linux is focused on different hardware, both for servers and for common use PCs.

  35.   José Miguel said

    That man has a problem of immaturity, and consequently, of lack of personality. He seems like a puppet of his new situation, it's sad ...

    I think it does not deserve a line, it is best to ignore it.


  36.   Fernando A. said

    Congratulations Miguel! YOU MAKE USE OF LUNIX FREEDOM. It seems perfect.

  37.   Yoyo Fernandez said

    Well, what do you want me to tell you, it seems perfect to me that he goes wherever he wants, for that he is a free being.

    I use Linux, Mac and Windows and happier than a partridge, although the one I like the most and the one that I defend to death is Linux, but that does not prevent me from using the others.

    A greeting.

    1.    elav said

      The objective of my Post is not to criticize that I use OS X ... 😉

  38.   DanielC said

    Without defending Icaza, I find it curious that they do not "dedicate" articles to other quite illustrious characters who have marveled at Apple and have one of that brand as their main machine, or down to the OS, as in the case of Linus Torvalds or Daniel Robbins (they dedicated a couple of articles to the latter here, but outside of reproaching him for those decisions).

    1.    elav said

      Let's see, I repeat one more time: This is not about Icaza using OS X, but about its double standards. You can use as many Apple products as you want (I love iPods), but not defend swashbuckling one thing and then going against it when it doesn't suit you anymore ...

      1.    DanielC said

        First: since he left Gnome it is no longer defending tooth and nail since something you defend you do not abandon. Then with his statements that the desktop had died and Linux should accept it and take that path, it is not defending tooth and nail either. As Icaza said, if we pay attention, this is not overnight but rather an abandonment that has been done for a long time.

        Second: As in the case of this type, Robbins and Torvalds made criticisms of the closure of companies that did not give the opportunity to support Linux, especially Torvalds lately, and switch to using products (for their working life, which is not the same personal-leisure as your case) who practice those same policies, it was something very similar to this, the difference with Icaza is that they did not proclaim it (well, Robbins yes), but the act is the same.

        1.    elav said

          This is not about GNOME, it is about the message I wanted to deliver and defend when creating it.

  39.   staff said

    Since last night I read the news on another blog I knew that today I would have something strong to read in these directions, but I did not think that much, hehehe.

    I understand why many people from any field choose to use Windows or Mac (although it does not fit in my head because they connect them to the Internet), but I do not agree with the media lynching of a person, even though it is only of a very personal outlet.

    I do not endorse Icaza's thinking, less his acting, nor do I even like his work, for me, GNOME has not existed for a long time, I do not use it, I do not recommend it, I practically do not talk about it, MONO or even say it, I think that this is a way of collaborating so that the projects that I consider bad are forgotten and those that I like grow.

    The rest would be to give importance, and encourage hatred, which creates a perfect breeding ground for trolls.

  40.   Alf said

    Maybe I'm wrong, but reading and rereading the post, I understand that elav thinks about what Mr. Icaza says, he is never giving his opinion about that he went to work at that company or that he uses OS X.

    So we DO need reading comprehension.

  41.   helena_ryuu said

    Since I read this blog, one of the things that I have liked the most is the direct opinions of elav, perhaps I do not entirely agree with him, but the general notion seems correct to me, in any case, as elav said in a comment more Above, there are many ways to contribute to linux, and if this sir, he leaves, well that he does well, anyway he was no longer contributing to the community, if he has spoken badly about linux, then he should wait for the answers from this type, but more than all that, we should be the users who provide the best for the operating system that we defend and love, elav does its part with this blog, many others with code, documentation, interfaces, artwork, etc ... we do not need this guy, we are linux, we are the linux community.

    1.    RAW-Basic said

      "We are linux, we are the linux community."


  42.   Algave said

    Go ... and enjoy your MacOS xD

  43.   pandev92 said

    Well, to disgust as to disgust, I see it exaggerated, he has his opinion, which is respectable and of which many of the problems that he describes, have been highlighted several times, in phoronix, linux needs to make many steps forward to improve the user experience and not simply stay in a mediocre experience, like windows.

  44.   ferchmetal said

    Masterful, simply masterful, your writing to Miguel, very good, and I, like many others, still accompany you with the force of Freedom! long live GNU / Linux!

  45.   st0rmt4il said

    As he is circulating on the Internet, Icaza only uses Mac Os X for his personal workstation and still maintains links with Linux systems.

    Here is a little more detailed news in which you can see a tweet from the creator of Mono 😉

    PS: As he says, the user is the one destined to choose what best suits his needs.

    The creator of Gentoo uses Windows and they have not criticized it, apart from that it is still in its distribution, which is not Gentoo, but it is Funtoo.


    1.    Windousian said

      You mentioned another element of care (the creator of Gentoo).

      The way I see it, most of us criticize that he sets his sights on the fragmentation of GNU / Linux to discredit our desktops. One guy who encouraged the fragmentation of the desktop and development tools says he abandons the GNU / Linux desktop because of its fragmentation as a platform. He would be more handsome quietly.

    2.    Husband said

      Neither Gentoo nor Funtoo ever approached GNU, nor do they plan to do so as it is not in their objective to separate repositories. I don't think its creator can be criticized since it was just a job opportunity (how many @microsoft do you find in the kernel readme?). Icaza not only participated in the GNU, but was a Latin American radical leader who advocated for Mexico to adopt free software and trolled KDE users by telling them that Qt was proprietary. Who would say that a decade later would be on the opposite side? He is not a simple programmer, he was someone who represented free software

      1.    msx said

        Wrong sir, both the software produced by the Gentoo foundation and the Funtoo project is 100% free GPL and in fact Daniel Robbins is an advocate of free software.

        However and since they respect the plurality and needs of their users instead of "imposing freedom" on them, they give the end user the decision of what to use and what not to use, that is why they do not have separate repositories, because it is not necessary, because it is in each user the decision of how free he wants his system to be.

        I repeat: the integrity of the Funtoo project is 100% GPL and at least so was the code produced by the Gentoo foundation while he was running it, I don't know what it will be like today but I don't think much has changed.

        1.    st0rmt4il said


        2.    Husband said

          msx .. gentoo / funtoo produces and makes available the uncompiled package for you to emerge -av nvidia which is NOT free. That of the user's needs, plurality, etc. is your personal judgment and a self-reference. At least Gentoo talks about pragmatism, which is why these packages are included. Here my references http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html
          And just in case, here Gentoo itself clarifies that there are packages that have a license incompatible with the GPL http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/License_Groups Where have you seen "100% free GPL"? Having a GPL license does not ensure that the project as a whole is 100% since the license ensures that it can be complemented with other licenses. I would say that they are closer to opensource, at least gentoo is hosted in Osuosl and Funtoo explicitly says Opensource http://www.funtoo.org/wiki/Welcome

        3.    Windousian said

          Daniel Robbins has had conflicts with other Gentoo developers but that has nothing to do with Mr. Monkey.

          It makes no sense to compare him with Don Miguel. Robbins never blurted out such nonsense and nonsense.

        4.    Husband said

          Msx I did not say that Gentoo is 100% or 0% free. I said they never approached GNU nor did they separate the repositories. They are pragmatic and try to include software that is convenient for them. So it makes no sense to create controversy with plurality, freedom of use or criticize or praise its creators, since they do not seek to create a policy, manifesto or philosophy. Software only

          1.    msx said

            Wrong back.
            In fact, there is ALWAYS a decision with philosophical content when building a distro and in the case of DR their position is well marked: the software they would produce would be _always_ 100% Free GNU-compliant, however they would never limit their users from having to using only SF Libre, they would also include third party software that their users deem necessary.

            And yes, there was a manifesto when creating Gentoo (Funtoo instead was born as a pet project), if you take the trouble to visit the distro site and do a couple of clicks you will be able to read it.

  46.   Francis_18 said

    What mania do Maqueros have with that their system always works well and the first time, how can it not work with the limited range of hardware they have? It would be stupid if something did not work.

    Also with the money that an iMac costs you, you buy a tower that even NASA does, which they justify with OS X.


    1.    Francis_18 said

      PS: I am writing from class, that's why I use windows xD

      1.    pandev92 said

        In ultrabooks, things are much more even, between the macbook air and its rivals. With the macmini, the price difference is not that great either, what if they are worth too much are the pro and the imac.

        1.    Francis_18 said

          Yes, the truth is that I have not looked at the prices of the macmini, but those of the iMac are even insulting, but hey, I respect who uses Mac, everyone is free to use the OS they want.

      2.    st0rmt4il said

        It's nothing, I use Windows for OFFICE reasons, plus .net for the university and I use virtualized Linux. So there is no drama .. Easy ..

  47.   Polonium + uncomfortable leaders = leaders with cancer said

    Man, you don't have to be a fan either. De Icaza has all the right in the world to express his opinion, and he is not lacking for a certain reason: Linux is as solid as Nacho Vidal's posh, but its graphical applications and desktop environments (especially the two big ones -ay, Plasma, When will a month go by without any of your components peting… -) They are another song. And about fragmentation ... Well surely if there were fewer distros and projects for programs that do the same and some people got together to make big, effective and solid projects, we would have better programs. Be careful, courteous not even brave, and we must not go to the extreme that there only has to be, for example, a PIM suite or a single web browser for the entire Linux world, but it is that sometimes it is scandalous to see how this begins , the other, that project and the one beyond, you try all four and neither does everything well that it should do well, accepting that the perfect software does not exist. How many browsers for KDE / QT are there, 4, 5? How many work well, none? Shouldn't the people from Rekonq, Konqueror, Qupzilla, Arora, etc, get down to work with some of the people from the other projects to make a fucking modern, stable browser that represents the pages well and does not lack functions that no serious browser would give up?

    I recognize that it is a real pleasure to work with a Mac. It is true that everything works well and in a stable and agile way, nothing that everything is going well and 3 months later something has been deconfigured, as unfortunately happens more times than it should in desktop applications for Linux (has anyone managed to work with Akonadi for more than 3 months without losing emails or notes?), and certainly nothing that the screen is drawing to pieces, as sometimes happens in environments for X window or Those dialog boxes that go out of the width of the screen because someone has thought that it is a bad idea for the text to be rearranged in several rows to have a dialog box no wider than 400 or 500 pixels.
    It is also true that I do not change a system as open and flexible as my Gentoo, for a MacOS, but at Caesar what is from Caesar: Mac OS is the model to follow in terms of stability, efficiency and good work in the details; the fine work that in the end makes a lot of difference.
    By the way, someone mentions Linus, above. It is well known that Linus also loves Macs (which is not the same as that he loves Apple, only the operation of their machines).
    We must not close ourselves to learning from others who are better than one in certain things, and incorporate that perfectionism in what does not come out so well for us. Every "creator" is inspired by others, whoever they are; and that inspiration would make Linux and its EEs (which, as I've been saying all the time, is what really limps, Linux and the GNU parts don't even hammer away) even better.

    I suppose mindless fans will fry me into comments to the contrary, but hey, as Einstein said, “There are only two infinite things: the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one. xD

    1.    Polonium + uncomfortable leaders = leaders with cancer said

      By the way, sorry for the keystrokes ("hit them" But what the fuck! Let me step on whom ?, xDD); obviously I'm not the best typist in the world ...: - /

  48.   kondur05 said

    Guys, let's not waste time with a poor jetón like the icaza, if he did sew good things for him, but the last thing he writes only shows how stupid he has changed. What did I buy a mac? Great pod I bought a vit with canaima and it behaves well and a used game boy advance

  49.   Let's use Linux said

    Clap, clap, clap.
    I share your words elav. This boy has long lost his way.
    A hug! Paul.

  50.   VaryHeavy said

    I couldn't agree more with Elav and his opinion of mr. Icaza. I already mentioned it in MuyLinux, both filling one's mouth with "freedom" and then selling it to the highest bidder ...
    in effect it has no other definition: Hypocrite. He is just another who has taken advantage of the benefits of free software until they are no longer 'profitable', another unclassified who dreamed of one day becoming a posh member of the oligarchy. Icaza is the Pío Moa of free software (for those who do not know Pío Moa, here is a very brief reference http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%ADo_Moa).

  51.   Mariano gaudix said

    Luckily ELAV does not cross Miguel De Icaza face to face.
    Because there if surely there will be RING for a while.

    ELAV vs De ICAZA… ..De ICAZA vs ELAV.

    Mortal Kombat !!!

    I don't want to imagine where the MAC of Icaza ends, ELAV has the answer.
    heh heh heh

    1.    msx said

      Hahaha, eaaaa!

  52.   ldd said

    Miguel D disgusting

  53.   Fernando Rodriguez said

    I have read ... several comments ... and apologies and curses ... but hahaha ... look from that point of view I AM VICTIM OF GNOME ... I have 5 years with ONLY LINUX ... And every month I install more linux on HAPPY users' machines .. well..LIFE I BELIEVE IS A LIKE A TRAIN, from time to time some go up and others travel, some accompany us a long way and others just for a moment ... IF THE MONKEY AND FATHER LEAVE .. well cute .. congratulations and those who stay, well prettier. you have to suffer him for nothing. Whether or not your statement is, this guy contributed a lot to the FREE SOFTWARE movement, and from this with all its deficiencies we can mention it or we can defend it. AS FAR AS I KNOW this is not a career to IMPOSE, I have worked with MAC and very elegant, but I have not spent a fifth in MAC, I have worked in WINDOWS ... and I have reasons not to wish it, I have wanted to convince people to change and still They are scared .. hehehe but both things are worth the same to me and whoever asks me for help to use a distro I am always willing ... as an advanced user and programmer I enjoy LINUX a lot and EVEN IF THE FOUNDERS DIE OR THAT LINUS TOVARS HIMSELF will change me to WINDOWS would convince, nor would I say TRAITOR or Liars ... LINUX TEACHES SOMETHING MORE THAN TO PERSONALIZE YOUR DESKTOP NOT TO ENSLAVE YOU TO A SINGLE METHOD. FEAR OF DIVERSITY .. hehehee there is your wealth .. that there is a lack of a standard to standardize half the world… well ask ANDROID for the recipe hehehehe… GUYS, GIRLS AND DIVERSE… hehehee be happy with what you do and stop suffering for whom turn your back…. There are thousands of productive things to take advantage of and whoever wants to go wherever they want…. MORE BETRAYALS THE POLITICIANS DO TO THE SOCIETIES OF THE WORLD AND OF THOSE IF WE SUFFER, THOSE ARE MORE SERIOUS. Let's keep a good memory of someone who passed through our lives .. jejjjeeeejeee ...

  54.   Eduardo said

    Miguel de Icaza: Thank you for what you once did for Linux, now that you are doing well.
    "Respect for the rights of others is peace." Benito Juarez

  55.   Anibal said

    It sucks and it is also a PE LO TU DO!
    He was responsible. In other words, HE is useless and did not know how to do his job.

    end 🙂

  56.   Diego Campos said

    The founder himself abandons his own creation, with actions like these, the less desire one has to use GNOME ...


  57.   ferchmetal said

    TRAITOR!!! free software forever free, GNU / Linux forever free and for everyone !!!

  58.   Marco said

    Icaza Judas…!

  59.   Ramos said

    It's funny to read so many comments from people, who have no idea what free software represents, criticizing a person who contributed so much. Surely the majority are people who started using some version of Linux just to look more "nice".

    Miguesl, at the time, offered many of us the only alternative to Windows and thus gave us the opportunity to delve a little into free software.

    The author of the article can criticize his position, call him whatever he pleases and feel very disgusted by him. But surely the author's maximum contribution to free software is having a blog called "FromLinux". And to his misfortune, there are thousands of blogs like this, so there is no hope that Miguel will read it and issue a comment.

    1.    elav said

      Seriously? The only alternative to Windows? Well, by the time GNOME came out (March 3, 1999), KDE already existed (July 12, 1998).

      But since you touch on the subject ... I have not only contributed to this blog, and it matters little to me that Miguel de Icaza reads me, because this space is not for users like him.

      And since we are here: I was one of the pioneers and managers of The Migration to Free Software within MINED, helping the institute where I worked to be the first educational center in the country to use 100% Free Software, both on PCs and on The study plan. In addition, I provided advice in other institutions.

      I am a member and coordinator of the Free Technologies Users Group in Cuba (GUTL), for which I have taken part in the dissemination, promotion and implementation of Free and Open Source Software in various places including state centers. As part of these activities, I have organized several important events such as FLISOL.

      And I have contributed in so many other ways that you may be insignificant for you, but not for others. Now, if you think that contributing is just "programming" or "improving" an application ... you are wrong.

  60.   bolbo said

    What bitch have you taken with the man, leave him alone if he does not want to use linux in his daily life, he is right that the professional application developer has not been taken into account and it has taken a long time to facilitate the automatic recognition of the hardware. S has hinted in some news that Icaza disavowed Linux and this is not the case professionally, I suppose he has reached a point of outrage that Linux does not take itself seriously enough to attract software developers.

  61.   Diego said

    Icaza has done much more for Linux than all those who comment here.
    You can make your ass whatever you want. I said .

  62.   Juan said

    The truth now if you see how fucking and asshole Icaza is, I just wait for the moment to go with all the knowledge to the highest bidder, he has always done that. The knowledge of others is stolen

  63.   Manu said

    I would like you to reopen your panorama to the systems that exist today, and believe me if linux continues to fragment it will end in decadence

  64.   Juan Gomez said

    What Miguel said is a stupid sovereign, it was easier to recognize that he does it for money. .. don't suck .. if he has spent his whole life watching what other companies do to steal it with reverse engineering… it was for money, Icaza the prostitute… we all sell each other, but Miguel is a very expensive whore… and he owes it being the guy is great .. simpler to say I want to earn hundreds of millions of dollars .. there is nothing wrong with it….

  65.   jrbp1972 said

    Macs are overrated garbage but ask the disgusting macbook that I have fried in my deposit. I recommend that no one buy one of those crap, Linux is the best option for everyone.

  66.   Raul said

    I have been using Linux for over 5 years. Personally, I am not a computer expert, but this trip through free software has taught me a little about these matters. Despite my little experience (and having tried Fedora, Ubuntu, Elementary, Mint, Debian and Antergos) I do not understand what Icaza says. I have no problems with the WIFI, much less with the audio; I can suspend without problems. I sincerely believe that Mr. Icaza betrayed his ideals.

  67.   Aralmo said

    Of course, the person responsible for MS investing the millions it invests in Linux is disgusting, perhaps not as much as this post.