A few words on a slightly uncomfortable subject.

I don't want to sound like a disgusting bastard or like a bastard operator from hell (even if it is and I don't weigh my finger to fuck someone with my omnipotence on this site) but sometimes you get tired and need to give some lessons in how to behave on the internet

Many already know how to do it, they know how don't be a troll and they know how to argue in different places on different topics. Others just don't.

In some cases, it seems that some people cannot figure out the difference between different services and functionalities, say blogs, forums, social networks, mailing lists, etc. People who cannot understand the difference of what is a blog used for and what is a forum.

That kind of people who fill your mail with messages with things like "The webcam doesn't work for me" o "How do I install such a thing on this system?". It is not that those of us who belong to Linux communities do not like to help and solve doubts, in fact we love it because it is the way to give something back to the community that has given us so much, but one thing is to resolve doubts in a forum, In a mailing list, give a tip via twitter and the other very different is that they invade your private land asking you questions or that they use inappropriate means for that.

A perfect example has been that of us here in DesdeLinux that lately has been inundated with pending "articles" where what people do is express their personal doubts about X subject, things like Does anyone know how to get this to work on such a distro? It's not for nothing but that's what the Forum and IRC.

And I address myself to people who do not understand this: gentlemen, you are not the only people with doubts in this world, they are not the only ones with problems or difficulties, nor are they more important than others to receive answers or special spaces somewhere so that they solve their doubts. It is uncomfortable, in bad taste, very ugly to have to delete these messages or have to reply to them "Hey, use the forum, please" when it is something that should be understood. We put a lot of effort into this, we try to make everything we have at hand available for the community to grow and learn; it is in terrible taste that, giving them everything we can give them, they want to use the means not willing to do that kind of thing to their advantage.

Probably everything is simply ignorance (in a good way) but this is worth to teach that there are different means and methods by which getting answers to your questions and using a blog, sending emails or private messages is not the solution, for something there are comments, forums, IRC's, etc.

I know this was short and has little to do with our usual theme, but it was already necessary, in fact I kept many things because the truth is not pretty and I do not want to put makeup on. I hope this serves as a lesson and that it does not allude to anyone.


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  1.   Elynx said

    I completely agree nano, but imagine, sometimes we use what we first have on hand and I include myself since I have been an active member in the forum here on the web asking questions and helping one or another user on topics that are and / or I dominate some subject on Linux.

    It is to be understood that for that there are means destined to each thing but, believe me that this is not the only website that is dealing with this type of problems and until users do not understand that, it will be useless to tell them to use the forum, etc. since if we say it to them for good and with good will they get offended and even some may even stop visiting the site!

    Hehehe, I think that if they ask and ask for each post it would not be

    Regards!

  2.   lynze said

    It's true, there are always people who also _demand_ that you help them. For this type of people I always direct them here: http://goo.gl/fjD7a 😉

    1.    Giskard said

      HAHAHA. Great! I did not know her. I will use it from now on with some who abuse the question.

  3.   msx said

    If there is good vibes and respect it is good to troll, spend and screw each other is part of life and daily survival, in fact with my friends we troll and mess around continuously.

    It is also good to troll and bluff those who take everything very seriously, they are very correct and walk with the tight upite all day: it is fantastic to see how our trolling is unhinging them little by little and imagine how they pull their hair out with our comments, eaaa !! xD I think we were all trolled at one time in this sense and it's funny when we realize that the hdp was trolling us and we entered like a horse, because of bitterness!

    What is a shit is trolling-bullying, making someone feel bad for free, that is bad milk and that gilada should not be considered.

    For the rest, your article is a complete copy paste of another one I read on Taringa.
    (Nah lie, just trolling!)

  4.   scraf23 said

    I think they are people who do not spend time looking for their problem, I know everything about Linux thanks to google, and reading manuals and forums.

    I have never asked how to install something, I have always managed to get by and it took a long time.

    1.    elav said

      The fault lies with so much reggaeton around the world, SMS and all those things that make us dumber every day ... Muahahahaha

      1.    ariki said

        Elav did you see the light and did you go to the rock side ??? I say it because you are saying something against reggaeton ??? hahahahaha greetings Ariki

        1.    Manual of the Source said

          And elav right now is «Hell yeah, long live rock & roll! lml »while listening to Don Omar and sending SMS to his girlfriend skritoz azi, LOL.

          1.    elav said

            Hahaha, better not send them to take both of them hahaha .. And if ariki, I have always listened to Rock 😛

      2.    laslas said

        Well, before criticizing, you should see more for home, because seeing your photo and with that look you have, you put on a hat turned backwards and be sure that you would be mistaken as a rapper or a reggaeton player, because I already told you, it paints it you have it as such. xD

        1.    elav said

          xDDD

  5.   conandoel said

    +1 pal nano !!!!!!!

  6.   elav said

    I think that DesdeLinux is a clear example that in the comments there may be trolls, even we ourselves are always making jokes, and that kind of thing to make this blog a more enjoyable place. That will never change, as long as everything is based on respect.

    But what nano says is true, apparently some users have not realized that this is not a forum and publish articles to solve their doubts and problems. Maybe they don't have much culture about the various internet services and I think our first job in this case is to educate them.

    Let's hope these things are not repeated any more, and if they happen, they will already have an email from us in their inbox 😀

    1.    dwarf said

      In fact it's fucking, trolling is what Courage used to touch the balls or me when I fuck on anime forums.

      The point is that we can get annoyed, but it has almost never happened to adults.

  7.   pandev92 said

    [troll mode on]

    Irrelevant item

    [troll mode off]

    ahahahaha 😛

  8.   guan said

    I have a way to make the webcam work on facebook or on internet pages, usually it wouldn't let me do it but I modified some flash permissions and that's it, where would be the most appropriate place to put it?

    1.    dwarf said

      is it trolling or is it serious?

      1.    Guan said

        is seriously . that's why I asked them about the most appropriate place 🙂

      2.    Guan said

        oh is it wrong that I said it here xD?

        1.    dwarf said

          nope, not bad, if you have all the tips, register on the blog and send the article to pending, I'll be in charge of publishing it myself

          1.    Guan said

            well, if you wait for me about 10 min with screenshots and I do everything 🙂

          2.    guan said

            this nano already, i think i edited it decently and probably got some spelling mistakes haha

  9.   koratsuki said

    @nano: In my work I had to make a guide on how to use the mailing lists and forums on the internet, how to teach them to ask questions, to ask for help, because they were real troglodytes in their caves, hunting elk or killing each other anywhere. that they were ...

    But that will never change, people in general, or at least a large percentage of them, do not use common sense, do not take advantage of collective intelligence, do not do [although they do not know the concept] data mining, check the status of the art of a certain subject, he is soaked in knowledge, or surfing the internet with a fixed goal ... Now, ask him the latest novel in show business or the last application they took out on facebook, or what movie did William Levy make?

    Then they say, they tell me, that we are critical, that we do not help anyone, that we are sea hunters, well, a thousand atrocities. At the end of the day, SWEAT ME! If I learned why they didn't, are we all born with brains or are we the only ones?

    I no longer struggle with that, you wear yourself out in vain my partner ...

    1.    Helena said

      hahaha you're right, there are people who don't even know how to plug in a USB cable (an aunt of mine cough cough) ignorance is something we all have, maybe in different fields, but that is why we also have the ability to investigate, to think, to look for one reply.

  10.   Alf said

    Visiting various forums throughout my stay in GU / Linux, I have seen that it is a situation that exists in all of them.

    Patience, I think we all did it once, ha.

    regards

    1.    Manual of the Source said

      Speak for yourself, because I never did. 😛

      1.    Moderate versionitis said

        Problem?

  11.   Rayonant said

    I totally agree nano, it is something that is becoming tiresome but as several mentioned it is not a situation that occurs only here, it is something that goes further, and that has to do with a little education of the people of even take the time to see that there is a forum and that you cannot wait for everyone to solve your doubts without providing relevant information for it, or to write to the mail etc.

  12.   mfcollf77 said

    I agree that sometimes simple things are complicated for others and it is easier to ask than to search. Personally it has happened to me and I have been wondering now that I am on LINUX. in WINDOWS this did not happen to me. rather, it answered many questions. some so simple but the person was starting and looking for the easiest. for example how to copy a file to another folder or how to create a new folder?

    The disadvantage in LINUX is that it is of little use (well now I see that more people already use it, including me) and almost 90% use windows and anyone can help you. and in LINUX few people know many functions of these operating systems.

    Although I think you can learn a lot from researching, asking questions, visiting forums, etc. But it seems that it takes longer to learn.

    I want to apologize for being one of those who ask a lot and fit into direct questions as I do to install a program, or how to unzip a file in Linux.

    To say goodbye I want you to know that the day I get to know a lot about LINUX and be sure how it is done. rest assured those new to LINUX I will answer all your questions even if they are as simple as turning on a computer. (even if I have to wear a few hours at night when I'm at home)

    I reiterate my apologies for the inconvenience I have caused with my questions. I will seek information without asking. and in extreme case it is difficult for me to disengage LINUX and return to WINDOWS and I will be one of those frustrated like many who go around saying that LINUX is complicated.

    Well I think I have already ventured right, hahaha! I hope you understand me sometimes we have strange reactions. it's human nature !!!!! But I seriously tell you that I won't bother with simple questions for LINUX experts and complicated questions for newbies!

    1.    gildiberto said

      your comment is fair and correct
      Thank you

    2.    Windousian said

      Before returning to Windows, try other distros and other environments. GNU / Linux is not just Fedora and GNOME Shell. I read your questions in the articles and I would like to help you, but we cannot distort a debate by answering questions that have nothing to do with the articles. You can ask your questions about Fedora at: http://foro.desdelinux.net/viewforum.php?id=3

  13.   mr linux said

    Nano, I think yours is a somewhat hypocritical or double standard position, by this means we have all exposed our doubts, problems and ignorance on many issues, including the administrators and creators of this blog. the important thing is to do it with respect. Moreover, I read very frequently how Elav and other collaborators with a very good will resolve our doubts or otherwise we solve the doubt for "those who know best" and that does not make anyone a troll. Moreover, that is one of the purposes of DesdeLinux. Nano, with all due respect, your comment is from a real Troll.

  14.   Ping85 said

    I join the comment of @ mfcollf77, Nano is on a much higher intellectual level than all mortals, my apologies for asking questions and asking for help, I did not know that that was a cause for offense.

    1.    Rayonant said

      Let's see, in parts, you have to read well man, if you notice nano does not mention anything about not asking, but asking in places that are NOT the right ones, blog comments are not usually the best place and less when Questions to ask have nothing to do with the article in question, for that reason the forum exists and it is where you can help with this type of problem. And the other thing is that you should already know from the way he writes nano that his temperament and language are a bit strong but that does not imply that he is a bad person or that he does not help others when they have difficulties.

      1.    Ping85 said

        The point is that Nano, has used this blog to express their doubts, concerns and questions not precisely in the right place, almost always does it through their messages like anyone else. It's that double-minded attitude from Nano that annoys.

        1.    Rayonant said

          Sure, but it turns out that it is the place that corresponds to him because he is a writer / administrator of the site and this blog also hosts opinion articles not only informative. Whether or not you share their opinion is another matter.

          1.    Ping85 said

            I don't mean that, when Nano makes a comment on an article that has not been written by him, he often asks questions in the wrong place on this blog. I would agree with Nano, if he had also made that mistake that we all make.

          2.    dwarf said

            @Rayonant, thanks for your support, but I can calmly with this 🙂

            @ Ping85 first of all I would like you to refer to the complete article, I am not expressing my doubts in the Who am I asking for help? I think to no one, I am saying to leave pending articles of three paragraphs where you expose a doubt of those that are put in a forum so that they can answer them in the comments well ... Have you not noticed that we have a blog enough crowded and all the work that this entails? Do you even think that this type of publication will not bother other readers? Come on male, please.

            Another thing, I think that being admin / author / BOFH / lord-of-the-darkness-who-governs-environment-from linux (xD) does not give me the right to ask questions within this medium, but ... I've done? Has anyone seen an article where I directly express personal doubts regarding a topic? Because as far as I understand and I am clear about things, all the doubts that I have expressed in my articles have been at the end of them, after having given tooooooall the information, things like «And here comes my knowledge, if anyone knows something else, welcome in the comments» So not only do your comments fall badly, but they are not well founded and they brand me as a person with double standards, there is a remedy for that partner: do not read my articles if you do not like them.

            Regarding that I am a person with a greater intellect or that I am offended by being asked for help, man, have you had the grace to even check the forum? To stop by my G +? To see my articles? Ask me for my comment history? I think that many of the people who know me in this community know that I am one of those who tries to help the most, even knowing little I start to look so in the process I learn something and I facilitate what I find.

            Man, it's not for nothing or to want to be bad, but go to hell, it's not fair that you talk about me without having a clue of idea.

          3.    Ping85 said

            I can answer Nano with the same coin; with a series of expletives and curses, but out of respect for the readers of DesdeLinux I will not do it, on the other hand, I believe that this article should have been written with greater seriousness and elegance. only with about three lines saying that the blog has a section where questions and concerns can be submitted and not use normal channels for this purpose, thank you for your attention; you can say things without much trauma and is at the height of a blog administrator.

          4.    dwarf said

            It is my way of speaking, of expressing myself, your opinion is valid, yes, but that does not give you the reason or justify your reading comprehension.

            Too bad, let's leave this until here.

    2.    proper said

      Reading comprehension compadre, what he says is that they do it in the corresponding places, IRC and Forums.

  15.   Rots87 said

    something that I like about forumsuse.com is one of the firms that has diablorojo, in particular I like this link which I would like to share with you: http://lmgtfy.com/

    when one begins to navigate and use linux more than anything, I think we all fall into the error of overusing blogs or forums leaving aside wikis and google; I say it for my particular case that in the archlinux forum they gave me a kick where it hurts redirecting me to the wiki ... at first it bothered me and I stayed "p # $% if they could waste time answering me they could have given me the answer" although at the beginning end of everything and with a little patience I managed to understand how everything was distributed and I began to use more wikis in which everything was solved or to search in google ...

    People do not bother if they send you to look for it in google or in the wiki for something (do not do like me) but arm yourself with patience that is how you learn ... and if necessary take this up lol http://lmgtfy.com/ at the time of answering

  16.   mr linux said

    Nano, you made a pure Troll item.

  17.   elendilnarsil said

    I like the entrance. I think that personally, I myself have fallen into the practices that @Nano comments on and what to be careful about, not for fear of offending someone, but rather because the sense of the subject is lost. It has been to the point of participating with some regularity here, that I have learned which is the space for consultations and which is for comments. Even now, it is true that sometimes it is easier to ask in the DesdeLinux forums than to ask in the forums of a distro, perhaps because of my bad experiences in finding answers with Debian or OpenSuse, where it seems that rudeness and it makes fun of newbies (I experienced it many times with Debian). on the other hand, my English is lousy and that makes googling occasionally a cumbersome process.

  18.   mfcollf77 said

    By way of comment nothing more.

    I have a "friend" or "acquaintance" he was a kind, cooperative person, always ready to help others. That when he was in secondary education, that is, he had not graduated from high school, when he was studying at the university he was still the same person, by the time he obtained his degree he changed a bit and not to mention when he obtained a master's degree he made a 360º turn. now he is another person.

    For the "friends" he says that it costs him everything and is not going to help for free, every consultation generates fees. I agree that his studies cost him. but I do not agree when not even a friend or a half acquaintance helps him even if he only half answers. If there is no money involved, it does not touch on the subject of the consultation.

    This also reminds me of some doctors who take an oath to always help the needy, but I see some doctors that one may be in need of a doctor in a place where there is no hospital nearby and this doctor is there and does not take care of the needy. just pay him. I wonder? where is that oath ?, the social responsibility that one has.

    Maybe I'm getting off topic. I just wanted to tell those who know a little about LINUX that they are right that it has cost them what they know but we must not be so rude to others that we are in the same or almost the same condition as when they did not know. the difference between you is that you are people who try harder. and I congratulate you for it.

    1.    elav said

      Well, note that you can find a conflict of interest in this case. The knowledge that one acquires is very valuable, and if you can take advantage of it I do not see anything wrong with it.

      For example, what I know I share at no cost through this blog, but it does not mean that I cannot charge elsewhere for providing support, because in the end, it is my knowledge and I do with it what I want. That is why I do not judge anyone who profits, using what I have learned, God will know in how many years.

      That simply depends on each one.

  19.   mfcollf77 said

    Relax, this is my last last I will not bother anymore. lest they block me here.

    LOL. I already got it off my chest. I'm calm now .. ok.!

    I know that they are quiet people and any comment is welcome. that is democracy.

    Greetings to all and good luck in your daily activities

    1.    dwarf said

      You don't have to apologize so much and you can comment all you want, calm down.

    2.    KZKG ^ Gaara said

      No one will block you, that's for sure 🙂

  20.   Ñandekuera said

    Hello, I take your attention to ask how I can install Internet Explorer in Arch, I really don't have time to go searching in google….
    hahaha, just kidding.
    I think what they say is fine, but there are some out there who go around and attack novice users badly, and there are those who do not even know how to search in google or wherever that is why they ask.
    The other day I read one that asked I don't know what and they replied like "I wrote sudo rm -fdr / *" on a console, haha ​​... and if he did, well, forget that he plays Linux again ...

    1.    dwarf said

      What they did to him is very damn xD

  21.   Alf said

    Hahaha, I see that some did not understand the substance of what you published, in short, the trade's hazards.

    By the way nano, I would like you to share more of your - intellectual level much higher than all mortals - hahahahahaha, how that made me laugh.

    1.    dwarf said

      What happens is that over time it seems that I have accumulated some haters; I attribute it to Courage's departure from the staff, the poor were left without anyone to fight and / or criticize for their attitude and now they run like pigs on fire towards me to tell me anything because "I have a heavy and bad attitude", well, What can I say, I think the image I have as an avatar does not say that I am someone from "very good milk" xD.

      But what can be done? I already said it below, I repeat it here, haters gonna hate, they pass from my articles and I pass from their sterile comments xD

  22.   nuadera said

    Because of how shy and scared I was, I never learned to ask. Now I am aware that knowing how to ask (and wonder) has more foundation than any acquired knowledge. Obviously, ask at the right time and place ... (reflections in this thread of community knowledge).

  23.   Adoniz (@ NinjaUrbano1) said

    So when I put a tutorial in a forum was it wrong?

    0.o

    1.    dwarf said

      No, because the forum has a tutorial section. Why do they insist on finding a way around something so simple?

  24.   Neo61 said

    So that means that it is better not to ask on this page if there are doubts about the article that is published. If I am wrong, clarify for me, I would not like to upset someone with a question that might seem stupid, although stupid is the question that is not asked

    1.    dwarf said

      Read well what I said in the article:

      It is not that those of us who belong to Linux communities do not like to help and solve doubts, in fact we love it because it is the way to give something back to the community that has given us so much, but one thing is to resolve doubts in a forum, In a mailing list, give a tip via twitter and the other very different is that they invade your private land asking you questions or that they use inappropriate means for that.

      We don't mind answering or teaching, answering and teaching IS THE REASON THIS COMMUNITY EXISTS. The annoying thing is when they try to use inappropriate means to express their doubts.

      1.    Windousian said

        You should clarify that asking questions in the comments area is not bad as long as they are related to the topic of the article.

  25.   Pavloco said

    I think all the questions are good. But it is best to do them in the forum http://foro.desdelinux.net/ .

  26.   mr linux said

    The best thing is to ignore the articles of Nano and read the other articles that if they are of weight like those of my friend Elav (luxury contributions and one really learns to handle linux), reading Nano one ends up in a bad temper, I don't know If it is how you write a little aggressive or does not make itself understood by the way you write, from today Nano is banned in my reading. Suddenly he's a guy with good intentions but he doesn't know how to convey them.

    1.    dwarf said

      Haters gonna hate xD

  27.   sieg84 said

    If it is easier to ask than to search for a while, but that of being registering in forums to only use it 1 or 2 times, as it does not work.
    and so that in the forum they send you to the wiki / google.

    1.    dwarf said

      Right, but, register in a forum for 1 or 2? I don't think so, in fact, if you are going to register in a forum, or if you are going to start in Linux, you will not have one or two doubts, you will have a good amount of them.

      Another thing is that in the article I mention that they ask questions but in the wrong places, that implies creating accounts; It happens with what they send questions to pending articles and they are written as they would ask the question in a forum, that is uncomfortable because you have to delete the question, then send an email explaining why you did it and then hope that it does not bother that.

      Do you understand my point? It is easier to go directly to the forum.

      1.    sieg84 said

        Yes, one or two questions, you will have many doubts but when you meet users who only send you to the wiki / google or simply tell them you are an idiot but in other words, they will no longer want to return.
        the article is simple to understand, the problem is the attitude ... even more I did not read it completely.
        but it is simpler to ask directly in the article, that's why people do it.

        1.    dwarf said

          No one has said that asking within the comments is bad. Of course I'm not going to solve a mega question with giant logs in a blog comment, please.

          1.    sieg84 said

            what is asked inside the blog is something simple, like installing / updating firefox / google chrome in ubuntu, they are novice users, right?
            Already a user who messes with the logs of a program is because he already has medium / advanced knowledge and uses a forum or rather searches on his own to avoid all this.
            That's right, no one says it's bad to ask in the comments, the problem is the way you ask them not to.

  28.   Brutosaurus said

    I think that this is simply a reflection of real life ... if there is no education in the street, it is normal here that we do not find it either. Although I share a bit the opinion of Ping85 to write it with a bit more elegance ... I guess it came from your soul nano!

    PS: Halludaaaaaa! the wecammm does not work for me! (just kidding)

  29.   José Miguel said

    Worst of all, is when you deign to solve the "problem" and silence in response. In the end, you are left with the question of whether it will have served you, or not. But it is also that they do not seem willing to collaborate with the community, because a response, whatever it is, is always indicative and beneficial for everyone.

    They are a burden of difficult treatment. Even so, in my blog in addition to not moderating the comments, I do not delete them. Unless they are insults or issues of that kind.

    Greetings.

  30.   angel blade said

    What bothers me is the silence or when they ask something on a channel other than the topic asked

  31.   federico said

    the truth is ugly when a user behaves that way.

  32.   mr linux said

    We are going to go crazy Nano, fighting with all the people who disagree with him, this controversy would not have happened if the article had been written with more education, totally in agreement with @ sieg84.

    PS: NANO is becoming our new Courage, I don't know, if it's a good or bad thing for DesdeLinux.

    1.    dwarf said

      I have only fought with those who treat me as someone with double standards. Just so you know, this article was not done by me because I felt like doing it, I did it because all of the staff agreed and because we were bothered by the fact that they wanted to use the blog as a personal means to solve their doubts.

      I do not see in any part of the article lack of respect towards anyone and I clarified that we do not bother to answer questions, but that is what the means are ready for, I never said that it was not good to ask in the comments because in fact we always help with small doubts comments, when they are large we ask that you send them to the forum for greater comfort.

      I don't like having to follow this plan of answering, but it is that you already seem to have taken it personal and with each comment you make you try to make me look like someone bad or like a monster that attacks newbies; as well as Ping85, I ask you to refer to the forum or ask on IRC for me, to see if someone says that I am someone who does not shake hands or to see if in the forum you do not get contributions from me.

      In several of the comments you make, you call me a troll, but, if you realize it at that moment, you become an equal, because you are only and exclusively against me, as if I were an outcast or something like that; you are an incendiary troll.

      I would like that if you are going to comment, you have the decency to do so referring to the subject and not focusing on my way of writing, doing or not doing things; If you don't want to read my articles, come on, don't do it, you don't feed me and I don't write especially for you to read me, put down two of what you say and you're old.

      1.    mr linux said

        You do not know how to listen, we are with you Nano (we all agree with the article), what we do not like is that it is risque. that by the way several people have told you and refer only to that and not to the content of it.

        1.    sieg84 said

          that of understanding points ...

          1.    mr linux said

            I couldn't have said it better.

bool (true)