I'm tired of the attitude of Ubuntu and some users of this distro, towards what OpenSource is and the source from which they have been sucking for many years.
Lately, as many of you know, Ubuntu has decided to create its own graphical server, called Mir, in what is a kick in the crotch to the developers of Wayland, yes Wayland, that server that they had been saying, since Ubuntu 10.04, that they would use.
In the end it was discovered that Ubuntu had been developing its own graphical server since 2012, behind the back of the community. Okay, I'm not going to emphasize how bad it is to take everyone for fools and Canonical's lack of transparency, but above all I want to reaffirm myself on why what Ubuntu has done is horrible, at least in its forms.
The graphic server is a key piece, Xorg has become outdated and it is also difficult to apply certain things to it, since it was never thought for what today's requirements are. The use of one graphic server or another, can imply simply and simply, that another is left without any support from the manufacturers, relegating it to the simple support of free drivers, which in the case of Intel or AMD, are still quite acceptable, but in the case of NVidia….
It is here, where Canonical, for the simple fact of having a project where it can exercise its total and absolute control, which dictatorship, decides to create another graphic server, creating more division in the panorama (and thinking that its users are the ones who complain the most about that have derived distros), which, does not have anything that Wayland does not already have.
The betrayal has already been done, turning its back on the entire community, the developers of GNOME, KDE, and other environments that were already working on adopting Wayland. A clear example is that GNOME 3.10 (September 2013?) Will already have a lot of support for Wayland.
The community, as normal as it is, bounces, most people are working for free on a project, and halfway through working, someone comes out to tell you that your work is no longer worth anything, what face would they stay with?
This is how developers like kwin express things like:
Before I go into more detail I want to make one thing clear: Canonical is totally allowed to develop whatever they want. I'm totally fine with this and don't care whether they develop another display server, an own os kernel or yet another desktop shell. I couldn't care less. It's Canonical / Mark's money and he can invest it in any way he considers as useful. I wouldn't even care if it would be proprietary software, that's all fine.
What is not fine is causing a major disruption in the free software ecosystem by giving false technical arguments and doing bold statements about software Canonical does not contribute to. This is not acceptable. This was very frustrating and destroyed lots of trust I had in Canonical. It will be difficult to rebuild this trust. Canonical can be glad that it is the free software world and not the normal corporate world. There were quite some statements which could have raised the legal department in the normal corporate world [3]. It also cost lots of motivation at least on my side and I even questioned whether it's still worth to be a member of the free software ecosystem. Instead of working together we now have a situation where members of the ecosystem become a competitor and which badmouth part of the software stack. A very frustrating situation.
There certainly are valid reasons for developing Mir which also make sense. Unfortunately they have not been presented so far. I'm quite sure that I know the reasons and if they would have been said straight away it would have been for me and other projects probably much easier. It would have taken away the frustration which the announcement caused and we would not need to discuss it at all, because those question marks would not exist. But apparently Canonical decided to give false technical arguments over the real ones.
It is normal for developers to get stung, can you imagine a world, where the only environment that is capable of running Mir is Unity, and all the others that neither want nor like Unity, cannot use an environment with closed driver support?
But let's go further, let's see the madness, which would pose running KDE on Mir:
Mir doesn't have a real protocol. The “inner core” is described as “protocol-agnostic”. This renders a problem to us if we would want to use it. Our architecture is different (as described above) and we need a protocol between the desktop shell and the composer. If Mir doesn't provide that we would need to use our own protocol. And that already exists, it is called “Wayland”. So even if we would support Mir, we would need the Wayland protocol?!? That doesn't make any sense to me. If we need to run Wayland on top of Mir just to get the features we need, why should we run Mir at all?
To make an environment like KDE work, on Mir, Wayland would still be needed, something absurd, therefore, it was better to use only Wayland, right?
Now, well, Canonical is still on your way, which can go right or wrong for you. For example, I want to remember that today, Canonical is not a solvent company, nor does it dominate in the market of large corporations and servers, where Red Hat tends to dominate, so finally, the decision that distros like Red Hat or Suse make , will tip the balance one way or the other.
The problem comes, when you spend hours and hours, reading comments from Ubuntu users, on pages like Phoronix, you find comments like this:
No, no no… You don't get it. NOBODY is asking him to support MIR. Kwin is irrelevant for Canonical, and that's it. NOBODY is asking his opinion about what Canonical is doing with MIR and Unity. There's no a protocol for other desktops because there's no need. He stated already that he is not interested on MIR, and with good reason since kwin is irrelevant.
Canonical decided, and is a good thing in my opinion, that they can not count on third party upstream projects that don't give a shit about anything else except their own projects, for instance, gnome shell and kde. Wayland, gnome and kde don't meet their goals, why should canonical follow them? that's makes no sense.
Furthermore, I think that canonical should forget about kde and gnome for good, and somehow distance themselves even more from the old school linux distro paradigm that consists of packing loosely related, unrelated or even conflicting upstream projects
This developer should concentrate his efforts on performance, hardware compatibility and resource usage, something that he demonstrated is not very interested on. He decided to go for waylaid, well, start working on that, KWIn is going to become irrelevant anyways.
Seeing this, I can only say, long live OpenSource, long live, what a mentality ..., I think that some users got the wrong operating system, some seem like Mac OS X users, and not GNU / Linux.
And if I use GNU / Linux today and not OS X on my pc, it is simply for the freedom of being able to use whatever distro I want, with support from Nvidia, and without having to follow the ideology of anyone in particular. Because to depend on just one person, I better use OS X, that at least what they do, although the ways may be debatable, they do it well.
Anyway, the flame is served. But if I am left with something, it is that everyone is free to do what they want, but the core of GNU / Linux should be the same for everyone, and not trying to cause such a large and painful division. This is not Windows, this will never be Apple, because so many hobbies of imposing something on others, when this community has always distinguished itself in freedom and in sharing things with everyone?
Sources:
http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?80617-KUbuntu-KDE-Has-Little-Hope-For-Ubuntu-s-Mir
http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?80590-Canonical-Shows-Mir-Unity-Next-Running-On-MacBook-Pro
http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?80513-Ubuntu-s-Mir-Moves-Ahead-With-Unity-8-Interface
What "blowjobs" can be read here from time to time, right?
Like the ones you do from time to time?
For your information, in my ironic comment above I simply used one of the finest words that this misspelled blog entry collects. Now, thanks to your answer, I realize the kind of person you are, and therefore I can pass your opinion - as well as that of the author of the entry - through the triumphal arch, because I do not take into account the ordinary people of shoddy. A greeting.
This comment should be moderated: /
This is what happens when people fear that the Linux distribution they use may be left without proprietary driver support for their closed devices. Thus, they will not be able to use their wireless card to enter their Facebook spy nothing while they use Google to search the Internet for what they were commissioned to investigate and that they will very surely not refer to as if it occurred to them due to the Holy Spirit. Not to mention installing NVIDIA drivers to play on Steam. 🙂
PS: All the events and characters reported here are fictitious and are not intended to offend anyone. Facebook, Google, NVIDIA, and Steam are trademarks of their respective owners.
Wuao, the subject is burning, time to time, we have to wait to see what happens.
I think that the possibility is open, the fragmentation that GNU / Linux suffers is not only technical but philosophical, on the one hand we have Ubuntu that has developed a whole series of products that respond to the market, they have been talking about Wayland for more than 5 years and nothing This is no time for market strategy, Mir is the most logical answer; Since the rush of the market with an Android (Linux, but not GNU / Linux) devouring the market a Windows that is plummeting, there is a space, but it is small and the door is open for a short time.
There is no room for a 30-year development, Ubuntu responds to the market not to the community, and the market is fine, the market wants quality products that fit the needs (as soon as possible), I would love to use Debian and its stability on the desktop but the truth is that it still has a poorly maintained design and its configuration is slow, in a world where time is worth money, I get paid to install it on servers, Ubuntu LTS reigns on my desktop, simple, beautiful and stable . When Debian has an OS that does not require installing more drivers on my Thinkpad T410, a clean and beautiful desktop (see Xubuntu) that day I change.
In a world monopolized by the market, I cannot offer Fedore, Suse or Mageia, since it would imply thousands of dollars, resources and time to train 500 people, I prefer Ubuntu, which has a huge community and is very intuitive.
Finally I say that the possibility opens up because in the end the user who wants it has Ubuntu Mini Remix and UCK is clean, simple and light, you can simply make your Ubuntu to measure or better still take a fork, that's how GNU / Linux is the decision is up to the end user.
Totally agree.
I don't have time to read tutorials and tutorials, I use my computer to work and I will be more efficient if I do more work in the shortest time possible. When it comes to satisfying customers in terms of time and cost, I cannot risk sending them a catalog in ODT, or a tar.gz. If they can't open it, they send me to fuck the ass and leave with the competition.
If my sisadmin is afraid of Ubuntu, imagine what he is going to think of Arch or Gentoo.
Now back to the topic, we are interested in things working and done quickly, we do not have time to wait for the free, open, stable and philosophically correct application to be developed. Customers are not waiting for us. AND WHAT I HATE MOST ABOUT FLOSS is that any neighbor's child makes an application or a distro and gives it a weird name that is not stable and only provides 0.002% newness. I am already fed up with mediocre or unfinished applications that promise a lot in their next version that will be released in two years but will not have it in Debian stable for another 4 years.
How you wish you had a good updated, integrated, efficient and finished software. Let there be synergy and synchronization. All working for the average user (not engineer, computer science student).
If Canonical wants to be authoritarian, then for an operating system that is better than an anarchy of design, functionality and stability. So I hope Ubuntu is integrated, user-oriented, efficient, beautiful, stable, and secure. And that they are going to take the ass off those bloody distributions that all they contribute is confusion.
Pclinux os, opensuse, even debian, they are easy distros, enough to make people believe that ubuntu is easy and that you don't have to do anything, just look at all the problems it usually has when a new version comes out, and if you want to give it a look, look at the problems that were published in omg ubuntu, with skype, with chrome etc ...
@ pandev92
Those distributions you mention are not easy distributions for a person who is not a system engineer or users with like-minded skills. In debian the default browser closes itself constantly and the pidgin did not connect to MSN and gave many problems with the video of my laptop. I couldn't install OpenSuse because it was showing an error on a partition on my hard drive. I don't know Pclinux, I don't know what package manager it uses and I'm not going to use it because like I said, I don't have time to do the geek. Besides, I already know how to use apt and synaptic, I don't think Pclinux offers me packages that it can't find in Ubuntu.
What I am unhappy with is the applications, they are not good enough, it is the same crap in all distributions. That is what makes the massive use of linux on the desktop impossible, which is tremendously exhausting to configure a samba server for a small office, on windows that is very easy. Floss developers don't take advantage of the windows user experience and they always want to be cool by "designing" weird, ugly, and unfriendly UIs. I wonder: Is the MS control panel interface proprietary? Is it utopia that SAMBA can be configured the same as windows? Is that heresy? or is it simply recycling prior knowledge. Not all of us are geeks, there are people who what we do with the computer is work and we do not spend the whole day eating tutorials or killing time on xvideos.
@Pablo
I have had those same errors from worse to worse in Ubuntu, and I don't want to be a geek, I could say exactly the same as you.
Also, if you come to talk to me about beautiful UI, don't name me any windows, in any case osx.
@Pablo
The features you are looking for in a distribution, as you mention them, are still a bit out of reach. What is ease of use for you? The double click, the * .exe that microsoft has us so used to?
That "ease" of use is relative to the user's knowledge of an OS. Because after years of using Windows you find out that there is always a tool that you did not know what to do and that would make your life a lot easier. I don't think Apple sells at the price it does, lines and lines of code; they sell a user experience. Experience in which more than anywhere, the concept of black box is embodied. People who use iOS do not pay to know how to bite the apples, but how to do what they do without knowing how it is done.
You don't like the philosophy of a distro? the birth and development of a project that as well can work, how badly it can be a failure but in the end it was tried? Well, don't use it and that's it.
That ease of use that you are looking for, for people with your style, is bought with money. The ease of use that the GNU / Linux community looks for is bought with effort.
Your comment is asked and answered by itself:
Q: What is ease of use for you? The double click, the * .exe that Microsoft has us so used to?
A: That ease of use that you are looking for, for people with your style, is bought with money. The features you are looking for in a distribution, as you mention them, are still a bit out of reach.
Where should we take the torches ??? Although I had already read about it, I agree to the last comma with the post. It is more than clear that Canonical does not care about the Linux community.
As far as I can remember, he never cared.
True, but when I started using Ubuntu (8.04), I felt at least minimal collaboration. Now it is no longer a stab in the back, to become a point-blank shot.
Fortunately, there are multiple options to choose from in our Linux world.
Excellent article. Things like these further confirm the opinion I wrote in the post of the new Ubuntu packaging format, Canonical seeks day by day to further increase the distance between its distribution and the Free Software community. I find it unfortunate that they believe that the only way to improve is by turning their backs on their "roots" in the SL.
PS: with the user's comment that appears in the post, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
It is the article that I liked the most in this blog and I agree, one reason is the decentralization in free software, which I think is positive, another is segregation, apathy and selfishness, all present in canonical, trying to be "unique "And" different "when trying to be like Apple
It will be for options, it is clear that he never cares about free software or only uses it at will
Take down your hate.
It is not hatred ... in particular Ubuntu has long since set that utopian world in which users could arrive ... Now the developments only aim to dominate over others ... to show a button the point of looking ... I do not think its development has even been consulted with the user base they have and their developers ... See things clearly and you will realize that Cannonical is the one that generates this type of stupid thing
On the one hand, I understand your pissiness, on the other, the last quote you put in is partly right, understanding that Canonical's position is to look out for their interests, which according to what issues do not coincide with those of the free software community. Now, in addition to getting involved with Canonical when he plays, which I think is perfect (I also practice that sport xD), we should also delve a little into those dark alleys that Red Hat has created. In fact, not long ago you published an article about that here (the "conspiracy") and things are rather murky.
I wish Canonical luck in your company, the GNU / Linux desktop does not depend on Ubuntu, although it is currently one of the most important projects.
I just know, that if in a year from now my gnome shell is left for one or the other without nvidia drivers support, that's where my adventure in linux is over, I'm not going to use ubuntu or "wine jarto" xD
In a year a lot can happen, we have not yet heard the opinion of those who distribute proprietary drivers in this regard.
I still think that on the one hand it is fine for him to look out for his Canonical interests, as RedHat does by taking the course of Gnome as he wishes, but on the other, I do not see how he can win this "war":
-If it is for money, Canonical is urged to start making profitable Ubuntu that no longer finds what measures to adopt to start collecting shillings through its users, on the other hand RedHat and SuSe together do have the way (or at least easier than Canonical) to make commercial agreements to get proprietary drivers for Wayland.
-If it is due to the number of users, something where Canonical, RedHat, SuSe or whoever does not necessarily have to enter to ask-demand drivers for Wayland, but the same companies of the proprietary drivers can measure the largest target, it is clear that Gnome and KDE are infinitely more used than Unity, on that side it also has to lose Canonical.
He… I don't know what to call him, pride maybe…. Shuttleworth has taken him down a path where he is going to have a very, very, very hard time getting away with it without making an important collaboration for the world of linux.
Selling the personal information of users collected with spyware and filling the face of publicity, are one ways to make a lot of money, see google.
We will see how much Amazon brings you ...
At the very least, the software-center 5 that comes in Debian Wheezy lacks the spyware that is included in Ubuntu (the one from Amazon, of course). Anyway, Cannonical has given me one more reason to keep using Debian to the end of my days.
Yes, staff, so much money that comes to them that they are forced to ask for donations when downloading the Ubuntu ISO.
@DanielC
I think that because of the conciseness of my message I did not make myself understood.
What I mean is that, as you point out, Canonical does not have many options to make money with that OS (Selling it as Mac OS X or Window $ is sold is unthinkable.).
So what remains is to become a system full of spyware and spam, and I say FULL, because only a few are not enough, that's why I put that "We will see how much amazon brings you ..."
I don't even use Windows wine and os x.
I think the canonical ones are trying to do the same as google with android and chromeOS if they can eat a little of the market share, but for me the only thing they are going to achieve is to sink more.
cannoical people are mentally ill
I agree with you, Google uses the Linux kernel both in Chrome OS and in Android to do its business, that is great for the evolution of the kernel but for the rest of the ecosystem - GNU - NO
Ubuntu wants to follow that path, and it is within its rights, soon it will not be a regular GNU / Linux, or even a GNU / Linux, but a Linux - kernel - with its own ecosystem, it is a decision that as a company They have all the right in the world, and those of us who don't want to use it will use Mint or Manjaro or Sabayon.
The problem is to stand out "behind" the coopetition that are the distros, competition and collaboration, because Mir, being GNU, is not made for the entire community to collaborate and enjoy it, like Wayland, although it is already worth it for Wayland Also bugging his recent fork of a single ignored free developer, let him see if he's right, and if so, incorporate his improvements.
Too many egos are being seen in the Linux world which denotes that it is becoming more and more business, and therefore more incompetent people are joining - Peter's Principle -
The author of the post fills his mouth talking about freedom, freedom and freedom, but it turns out that if a company (or a person) wants to program something new within free software, it is wrong. Now it turns out that if you enter this world you have to collaborate with what already exists, and don't ever get out of the fold, because then criticism rains on you. Well, I do not agree. Freedom is for everything. And then he talks about whether it will be impossible to run kde directly on mir and blah blah blah. That criticism is as absurd as saying that Arch or Debian are garbage because they do not use the same packaging as Red Hat. If free software is collaborate with what there is or go outside (which seems to be what the post proposes), then indeed, I have made a mistake when choosing it for my computer.
sincerely you have gone through the hills of ubeda, and you have made a comparison worthy of a political demagogue, congratulations for your lack of argument.
The truth is that your comment is full of arguments. Anyway.
I have not yet read a single fairly coherent argument as to why the fact that Canonicla develops its own graphic server or parcel system is bad. Not one. I only read crybabies who say that if he is not going to bear this or that, or that he does not collaborate with this or that project. Well, it's very simple, Canonical develops its operating system and does things for it obviously. You are not going to develop something you are not going to use (such as kde support). It is absurd. It is as absurd as the examples I have given before (and that you call demagogues; a very fashionable word lately when they think the opposite of you). And to say that what Canonical does is bad because what it really wants is to have control of its own graphics server ... well. It is that I piss laughing in my chair while reading so many bullshit. Seriously, what's wrong with that?
Hi Lupine_3rd, I just want to make an analogy of what developers may be feeling and why they complain so much.
Let's imagine that since before 2012 you have a girlfriend, they love each other very much and have started planning the wedding. You have started making preparations and you are very happy. At the beginning of this year you find out that your girlfriend is secretly dating someone else since 2012, now how would you feel?
Well, I think this is a very similar analogy, don't you think?
Regards!
The analogy is good, but it lacks this approach: Your girlfriend gets EVERYONE's hand because she wanted it that way. She is free. So what is the problem? Jealousy because one of those who puts his hand on it, like, does it better?
I mean, to continue the analogy 😉
I answer to myself because I cannot reply to Giskard's message.
Yes, your girlfriend can get all they want and all they want, but what is wrong is abusing your trust and promises. If an agreement is reached, be it written or spoken, it is common that if one is cheated, many will see it with bad eyes.
Rounding out, if Canonical gets your hands on you, you're going to like it :-D?
Dude, I was just following your analogy. The bride in this case is FREE SOFTWARE. To which everyone can put a hand. I'm sorry you didn't understand the metaphor.
what happens is that that girlfriend is a vixen xDD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31RfXAEie1s
xD
Giskard, now I understand where you were going. I grabbed the other way.
Anyway, your answer was very funny!
Freedom to be freedom must also have its limits and restrictions. I cannot beat another for the simple fact that I am free and can do whatever I want. And what ubuntu has done when creating its own graphic server was to give a low blow to the protocol that had already been raised for a long time and make it clear that they are not interested or do not care about the philosophy of the software, it is simply imposed by those who it seems regardless of whether or not to be in accordance with free software.
What you mean is "debauchery."
Exactly, it had raised A PILE OF YEARS, and before MIR it seemed that it would never finish formalizing, and that canonical could not allow it….
I agree with you friend. Canonical is a company and it has to look out for itself. The rest is whether he has ethics or not and that is another matter. But I think we have been one of the few who read the article and we only saw that: crying for no reason.
Now, if everything that the article says comes to pass, perhaps a post like that would come to pass.
I don't know, I feel pure hatred. Like I hate teenager. Something like "MTV no longer shows videos, how angry I am, you will no longer see that channel shit, after all I didn't even want to"
You still don't give any explanation, except that you are either an ubuntu fanboy or you have been paid by ubuntu. From your comment it is indicated that you do not care about the standards, you do not care about opensource and you do not care that the Ubuntu decision could leave Linux mostly, with a state of graphics drivers like bsd, although well, in In any case, I see it easier for it to run out of support mir than wayland, since the latter has red hat, intel and other large companies behind it. (but i'm wrong samsung and tizen too)
That is the argument, if some plan to make linux, an apple, believing that they can play with linux as they want behind the back of the community, they can, but then do not complain that the hatred towards these people increases more and more. I prefer to use osx or windows, rather than ubuntu, right now.
I'm sorry that today you got up on the wrong side of the crib and wrote this post.
I had wanted to write this post for many days, only that I am very lazy to write, so I will get up again from the right side of the cradle, of freedom, and of opensource, every day.
Freedom according to the FSF is not to use proprietary drivers, so you shouldn't care what happens with mir, wayland etc, keep using free driver
The truth is that I do not want to continue arguing about this bullshit. I'm only going to answer you one thing. You say I'm an ubuntu fanboy or that he pays me (as if that's bad). Well, I actually use Ubuntu, BUT I use it with Gnome Shell. So if one day everything you say to me comes true, it will also screw me, since I will have to decide between going to another distribution that supports it or going to Unity. But even so, I am not going to criticize what Canonical does or does not do, because until now they have offered me a product that for me is very good and free. So, as much as I use it, I don't think I have the right to cry and kick because they change this or that thing. It's as if a friend invites me to eat at his house and I don't like what he's cooked and I throw it in his face. Another different thing would be if I paid for it, or they forced me to put it on my computer yes or yes. But that doesn't happen, so….
And before you tell me to try other distros and if so and if so, I'll tell you that I already have. I've been using Linux for a few years now and I'm still using Ubuntu (it was the one I started with), because I no longer have the time or desire to configure Debian or Arch, as I did before and Ubuntu works wonders for me and at the same time gives me the ease I am looking for .
Your comment seemed very successful 😀
I have been using Ubuntu since Hardy, and the truth is that I have settled down quite well is its base system and deb packages, I have used others as well, such as fedora and passing Chakra etc, and as far as I go it is clear that Uncle Shuttleworth is the one who puts the « pasta "to do what he does and of course it is in his interest and convenience, moving away from what is Gnu / Linux, for this part what he does is wrong, but he is the owner and lord of his" empire ", but In this little world, no one is forced, if you like it you follow him and if not "door".
But let's not pull our hair or throw our hands at our heads because there are as good or better projects than those of this «chicken», an example Manjaro or that of SolusOs, Chakra and so on a long list.
It is my most humble opinion. But this brings and will bring a good season.
Greetings Linux friends
If the problem is not that, here we are talking about that canonical wants to change something of the gnu / linux core and can leave all the others out ..., without any sense.
If the post refers to it, but what was said before, the guy is covered and has by divine punishment to be rich and he spends the money in his businesses and he will want to make his operating system (note that I say operating system and not distribution) to your taste and whim, example mac os comes from unix, more recently Andriod a "linux" that comes from Google, here "ca" one brings the ember to his sardine.
At the end of the day there will be people who use "Ubuntu OS", other Windows, other Mac and other Linux, and to each one what they throw at them ...
Canonical stinks of the 4 winds, row from that sinking ship.
Well said! Now, jump out of the kubuntu boat and get on the great Debian cruise.
Kubuntu is something a little different now, it no longer depends directly on Canonical but on the community, and if Ubuntu were to sink, even if Kubuntu and Xubuntu had a bad time, they have more possibilities to row on their own and for example rely directly on Debian .
the graphic server that manages to be better supported by the graphic manufacturers will be the one that triumphs, and I think that will be MIR. since little by little both nvidia, amd and intel are the ones that begin to work together with canonical, and of course this steam will be ported to mir, and mir will end up being the standard.
the money in linux is in the business environment, where ubuntu does not dominate. In any case with nvidia it is most likely that it will continue to support x for a long time, just like frebsd supports
The question would be the standard of what?
Because as far as I know, standard refers to a standard that everyone can (and should) follow. But in this case it only applies to Canonical products,
As with Unity, you can claim that it is as beautiful and modern as you want (very subjective issues by the way) but from that to being or going to be a standard there is a lot of difference.
What will happen is that Canonical and its OSs will completely separate from the community and create another alternative for all those who value the "freedom" to play next generation games more than the freedom not to be used and spied on.
And that is nothing new, it has already existed for a long time, only now there will be one more option for that class of users.
Intel has been working with Wayland for a long time, on the other hand it has been shown that Wayland can use the Mesa-Android
Mir can also use the android-table as you call them
I see more that it goes for control than for anything else
I fully support Ubuntu. There are more than 300 linux distributions, of which the vast majority do not contribute anything new, instead Ubuntu experiments with new projects such as the Unity desktop, Ubuntu phone, mir, etc. and then they go on Ubuntu saying that it does not support free software and that it only seeks its own benefit, but I ask myself, are Unity, Mir and others not free software? in such a way that anyone (who knows) can download the source code and adapt it to their convenience. I also read that some say that canonical has never been interested in free software and yet the GNOME home page is hosted (if that word exists: P) by canonical and in 2006 Mark Shuttleworth donated a large amount of money to the KDE project becoming one of the main sponsors of KDE, in short I think they give a lot of importance to a distro that they probably don't even use.
The problem is not that, gnome and kde are being ported to wayland, they are not going to change their plans because canonical believes otherwise, which does not bring any benefit over wayland, just because canonical wants to. There the problem.
And what is the problem? neither gnome nor kde will die for canonical support or stop supporting wayland. Each one chooses the path they want. For me Ubuntu is a company that supports free software by creating new projects. If instead of supporting projects that are underway they create new ones, it is because they have certain deficiencies for their interests. Do not try to find the dark side where there is none.
Is it to blame that nvidia has no free drivers? Instead of criticizing her for not having them, it is easier to criticize canonical, which is cooler and more fashionable.
In the event that mir does not receive the support of nvidia or amd, I will want to see the face that you have, you and your egoism. there it is shown to me that you do not care about the community, nor linux, nor opensource, but only ubuntu.
First of all, do not judge me without knowing me, even less for a comment that does not go against opensource or linux in general. I have been using Gnu / linux for 13 years, and I have contributed a lot to this world, thanks also to my work. Being the author of the post, you should set an example.
The only selfishness in my words is the one you want to see. You're trying to blame canonical for something you anticipate amd or nvidian doing, rather than blaming them. It's a drawer. I care about Ubuntu the same as any other distribution, I have never even used it in my pchome, but that does not prevent me from seeing the desire that some of you have for everything that smells of Ubuntu.
I confirm, it is easier to blame canonical than others.
You keep getting wrong, nvidia and amd have no fault that canonical is going to fragment linux even more, creating a separate graphical server, just because they feel like it. They don't even care about linux and you can't ask them to be supporting 4 thousand things, so in this case it's canonical to blame, your nickname doesn't trust what you write.
The real last straw would be for Debian to use Mir instead of Xorg and / or wayland.
If your PC uses NVIDIA as the preferred video card, then the use of RHEL, Mint or Ubuntu is valid (more Mint because in Ubuntu I get lost in Unity).
Let's see ..., because I'm thinking of believing that Ubuntu can be historically disappointed, seeing as it does not receive the support it believed, we will see.
maybe you take it
Excellent comment.
The point is that the contributions of Ubuntu are, for the most part, only usable in Ubuntu, such as Ubuntu One, that is, they do not have the mentality of developing something that can be used for the Linux world in general but only and exclusively for Ubuntu, and this is where people get upset, because not all of us commune with Ubuntu and Canonical nor should we be forced to do so, no matter how much donation Mr. Shuttleworth has made in his day.
And look, if it were a specific application, or a specific control center, pass, but when what is being played is the graphic support of all desktop environments in no way I think that Canonical should impose what they please.
You can say higher, but not clearer
Although I don't use it, I have Ubuntu One installed on my Arch, just as I once installed Unity on it.
The answer was to the previous comment XD
in arch it can be installed from all xDD, but as you will see, due to the large number of patched things and dependencies only from Ubuntu, it will never be in the repositories.
ahh lol! Sorry, if it is in the community repo, you can see that it has already left aur xD
Clearer, neither the water
Everything can be installed in arch, but running unity in arch requires a lot of work and patches from the user (there is a post on the arch forum about this).
As they say from AUR you can install a lot of things (even some Windows program that works well under Wine), but to install Unity, telita.
Now, maybe in Arch and knocked down you can install Unity (after spending a while dealing with dependencies, even using Yaour or Packer), but now think of other distros, like Debian where if you have to patch yours, and do a package .deb carries its own.
And then this MIR. that some Ubuntu-based distro might end up using it (which I highly doubt the Mint people will do).
One thing is free software and the other is to make it only work on a Linux distro, leaving the others behind.
Anyway, let's give time to time to see what happens with Wayland, I am among those who are that Xorg, although it works well, is starting to get very heavy.
I think the same, you are not alone.
Years ago I definitely abandoned Ubuntu, Canonical, and most importantly, everything they represent.
The Wayland topic was the last straw, so much so that I decided to delete about 80 posts dedicated to Ubuntu from my blog.
Canonical and consequently Ubuntu, are on their own, and I think it is "fine", but they do not have the support of the free software community.
Greetings.
They are like a parasite that feeds without giving anything in return, a path that they have chosen.
Cannonical is the most ungrateful company I've seen when it comes to free software lately.
I thank you for making the software-center, because without it, I wouldn't know exactly what the packages are called if I don't remember (the version in Debian is much better than the one that includes Ubuntu and family), the GDebi and the launchpad.
But if you want to know if there is any company that is worse than Cannonical, well I tell you that Apple is the one that beats it (their servers use Linux and Windows Server 2008 and so far there are no complaints from most of their users since they find them dazzled by the Aqua interface and its ease of installation of their apps).
Nice flame made by pandev92. I hope it makes another flame but dedicated to Debian.
The difference is that apple does not sell you free software, so it is freaking out or anything, from the beginning it tells you what's there.
Well, Mac has Bash and Bash is GPL # and I have not seen that the patches they use to run it live in or something
but well, time will tell Quen Win, but from what I see EVERYTHING from the three sides we will end with a great surprise
I don't see anything wrong with Canonical wanting to make their own software according to their interests. The day Canonical tries to force others to adapt to their software there will be problems, but KDE already said they would not adopt Mir. And did something happen? NO, whoever wants to adapt to Mir should do so, and whoever doesn't simply want to not do it.
Canonical is a company and must look out for your interests, it's that simple. What's wrong with them wanting to unify their platform with Mir? They want a server that can be used for PCs, tablets, mobiles, etc., and apparently Wayland did not allow them to work like that, and that's where Mir was born, ready.
If one day you're going to have to use kde with the nouveau drivers, we'll talk.
Well, I HAVE to use the open source drivers of my ATI because the people of AMD (and not Canonical) did not want to maintain the support for my card.
And yes, my ATI card is old. And before you tell me to buy a new one, pass me the money. So from my perspective the bad guy is AMD. But no. I see it as Planned Obsolescence. That I screwed up? Well yes, what are we going to do? But that's not why I cry.
You will see that in the end all this ends in nothing and there will be support for everything.
@ pandev92, you're crying over a hit you haven't received yet. We'll see what happens with Wayland and Mir. At the moment you rely on risky hypotheses like cheap philosophers.
If a project in diapers is able to unseat another more developed and with more support… The boys of Wayland will look very bad despite their foreseeable tantrums (I don't think it will happen). Whether we have proprietary drivers will depend on what AMD and NVIDIA decide. So the clubs for those who deserve them (at the time).
You always have to cry before to prevent it, lest it be too late later, sitting around waiting for all the ills to come to you is not wise.
Sure, crying over nothing is very wise. What you say XD.
The KDE developers themselves have said that they will wait for developments. At the moment they will not support Mir because it is not functional and does not have an advantage over Wayland (but they do not rule out working with Mir in the future if they see it necessary).
He who does not cry, does not breast.
@ Windóusico: What the KDE developers have said is that they will not support Mir until it is a server for a single platform (Ubuntu), in addition to changing the type of Mir license and even the engineering that not based on TDD (Test Driven Development). I don't think Ubuntu wants to change those aspects and I don't think the KDE folks will slacken (I hope not).
Dani, it's not that "nothing happened" because KDE did not go with Mir but with Wayland, the changes have not yet been applied, the results of these decisions we will start to see from next year when KDE and Gnome are fully ( or in very good part) ported in Wayland, and Unity in Mir.
Fanaticism? of course
I don't see anything wrong with Ubuntu going its own way, it is free to do so.
What I don't understand is the issue of wanting to bury X11 / X.org, everyone talks about Wayland being better and X.org being obsolete and other things, when it is really very stable, it works very well and it is something mature that it has been developing for many years. In Windows there is nothing like the graphical X system that allows thousands of things that you can do on the network due to its client-server structure, but nobody says that Windows is obsolete on that subject. Can someone explain to me what limitations and obsolescence X11 / X.org has to want to replace it?
Xorg developers themselves are designing wayland. In short, the X.org code is very difficult to maintain, it takes developers a lot of work.
In that case it does not matter, because that means that they will design a good compatibility layer so that applications using Xorg will work correctly in Wayland.
As far as I know there is no 'Vesa' Driver for Wayland and as long as that is not solved there is nothing to fear with the X11
https://blog.desdelinux.net/un-alto-al-fuego-con-ubuntu/
Such a beautiful comment and no applause. :') *clap your hands*
LOL! My post. By the way, I apologize to the community of DesdeLinux for choosing a bad title for the post...
Does not matter. Your article is much better written than mine (see https://blog.desdelinux.net/convirtiendo-a-un-windowser-en-linuxero-como-hacerlo/).
I liked that one, well written or not. I'm going to see if I put it into practice with a friend who LOVES Windows (his father was one of those who brought Win2 to Colombia).
Do they accuse Canonical of being selfish?
When Linus Torvalds said "Linux succeeded thanks to selfishness and trust", there were many who applauded to death. But now if Canonical proves the sayings of Torvalds with its selfish development, Ubuntu is a demon.
Canonical screwed up to infinity with Amazon's lens, just for not having warned the user what that lens was doing and not having displayed privacy policy information from the beginning.
But I do not see fair many of the criticisms of Canonical by Mir.
Regarding the nvidia drivers, rest assured that if RedHat or SUSE incorporate Wayland, I'm sure they will support it.
As a Kubuntu and KDE user, we'll see. Surely there will continue to be repositories that support X and Wayland. Or we'll see what the people in charge of Kubuntu decide.
"I actually think the real idea of open source is for it to allow everybody to be" selfish ", not about trying to get everybody to contribute to some common good."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18419231
I have to say that I do not agree with taking those sayings so literally, but he is right.
Translating what was said by Linus Trovals:
What do you think?
That he is absolutely right. We have seen it for decades in desktops and software that are forks and forks of forks, each one made with its own vision, either because the original did not allow changes or the second did not want to contribute their ideas and launched theirs directly to the public without intermediaries. .
Let's see, I have not translated it because the Google translator did it quite well. The translation would be:
"In fact, it actually seems to me that the idea of OpenSource is to allow everyone to be 'selfish', not to try to get everyone to contribute to some common good."
If it is translated with "Currently", it is as if Torvalds thought that at present the idea of OpenSource that he had, has been distorted by others, and it is not. Torvalds thinks that the success of OpenSource has always been due in a certain way to the selfishness of projects.
Greetings.
In that you are right, but remember that in the past, there was confusion among the general public between the terms "free software" and "open source." In addition, in the 90's, they supported the philosophy of free software more than open source since proprietary software at that time had not reached Linux and was much more marginalized by the monopoly of Williamsoft Microsoft.
Now, thanks to the blobs of NVIDIA, ATI and others, many have gone from the philosophy of free software to open source, thanks to the fact that "the 4 freedoms" has a great flaw in freedom 3, since it focuses on the common good and not from a personal perspective.
I don't have much information about the Mir project, but I would like to ask those who are more knowledgeable if it is a Free Software project? If it is, why then criticize that Ubuntu does not propose new things? Why criticize that they opt for create another project other than Wayland? Or is it a closed project? And that's why the annoyance that no one can modify or use it at will?
As you will see, they are only doubts, each one has the right to take the position they want for or against the distributions, at the end of all I think that those of us who use GNU / Linux are because we do not want the Software to be closed.
1- It is an opensource project aimed exclusively at being a kind of fusion with unity
2- Being an opensource project does not imply that this project can be modified by others as they please, in this case, canonical can break the api whenever it wants and nothing could be done.
3- One gets upset, because first canonical lied, then he lied again saying that wayland did not do what mir does (and if he does everything and more) and finally because the entire community that was working in wayland has been taken for fools, kde, gnome, e17, gtk, those of qt etc,
4-If you modify it at will, probably the closed drivers would not work xddddddddddddddd
I have understood - and just as bad - that Mir is simply a Wayland retouched to support Android drivers and not have to wait for Wayland and its drivers - to be done - to be able to arrive on time with the Ubuntu phone, since Xwindows for ARM GPUs is slow.
As Nvidia and AMD for x86_64 do not have proprietary drivers for Android, Intel being free would adapt easily and it would almost be necessary to use the alternative but lower performance free ones from Nvidia and AMD,
So on the desktop Ubuntu will probably provide Wayland at least optionally, but on phones and tablets they need MIR, and since they do, if they can get work done on the desktop they save themselves.
Wayland is taking too long, and it took a little while to start copying things from MIR such as accepting android drivers, for a reason.
The problem with everything comes from the egos of each other, which, and let's thank it, Linux is already a great business, and the engineers of Wayland if MIR succeeds they will have to find another job, and if it advances further they will have to justify their incompetence.
Welcome to the competition - coopetence - that the MIR code is GNU, despite the fact that in the ways those of Wayland have felt betrayed, but Ubuntu with many forks, some successful ones like Mint do not feel betrayed in the end, appearances are still deceiving
that's it, you can't say better or higher
Well said!
I really don't understand them. If Canonical makes "x" change to Ubuntu, they always criticize it that it "only thinks about its users, not those of other distros", that "it forgets who has made Ubuntu possible", that "every time it looks more like OS X ». Anyway, it could go on and still not finish.
I agree on several of those points, as well as that most Ubuntu users are extreme fanatics, but don't overdo it either. For example, when Manjaro (I think that's what it is called) decided to abandon Cinnamon and all that (better read the article published here), there were endless complaints and reproaches towards GNOME, because it is their fault and blah blah blah.
So, as Cinnamon will now be, in some way, exclusive to Mint, nobody says anything about it, even though it was always thought of as an exclusive environment for that distro, regardless of whether or not it can be installed in others.
As I said at the beginning, I don't understand them.
And I haven't used Ubuntu for years, I clarify.
is that the environment is not something from the core of gnu / linux, each one who uses the one he wants, since it does not affect the subtraction, but the graphic server is comparable to changing the kernel.
Even if Ubuntu switched to a BSD or made a fork of OpenSolaris (to take an extreme example), I don't see the problem, they would not be infringing in any way the concept of "free software", of course, as long as the licenses of said kernels were compatible with the software used in the distro, which I do not know.
Yes, I would agree that there were claims of how Canonical forgets about users and all that, but it is a fact that the freedom to do so has existed, exists and will continue to exist.
if it happened to bsd there are no problems. because no one would give support for more ubuntu out there, and the driver developers would continue to support linux like a lifetime xDDDDDDD
Following the logic of your comment, and bearing in mind that you are the author of the post:
If you feel like doing MIR there are no problems. because no matter how ubuntu there is, the driver developers would continue to support linux like a lifetime xDDDDDDD
Apologies in advance, lest by taking your comment as a basis and making some changes and exposing it to the community freely, you generate another entry fed up with my attitude and the other Ubuntu users
totally incorrect, the kenel is something much deeper than the graphical server and taking into account that if ubuntu went to bsd, it would stop working on thousands of pc's in the world, it would not have support from anyone.
It is a matter of trust and honesty!
FlameWar on a silver platter ... This is one of the aspects of why Ubuntu, at least to me it does not attract my attention at all ... For me, I keep abreast of the news of Debian and Slackware, Ubuntu already leaves much to be desired ...
The article shows that Ubuntu has triumphed over what others have long been failing miserably for thinking like the author of the note.
ubuntu has succeeded ...., yes, that's why everyone uses it (see the irony)
If it had not succeeded, you would not care that they make a graphic server since it would not affect anyone.
it matters to me! because it affects me that I use Gnu / linux 🙂 and not ubuntu
and how does it affect you so much? don't have wayland, gnome and red hat? Well, less hate and more wena cool
If you had read the tammux article, you wouldn't be asking this. But since you didn't, I'll write you the most important part:
It is normal for developers to get stung, they imagine a world, where the only environment that is capable of running mir is unity, and all the others that neither want nor like unity, cannot we use an environment with closed driver support?
assuming theories does not imply realities
I only assume what the kde and gnome devs say, nothing more 🙂
coincidentally gnome and red hat go hand in hand, once again, if you don't use ubuntu well for yourself but stop pumping your balls, we don't criticize KDE, fedora or whatever you use, stick with it and leave the others or as they said in the song: live and let die
[quote] casually gnome and red hat go hand in hand, once again, if you don't use ubuntu well for you but stop pumping your balls, we don't criticize KDE, fedora or whatever you use, stick with it and leave it to the others or as they said in the song: live and let die [/ quote]
Of course, I'll stick with it, and with kde, and with e17, but as long as someone tries to screw up the gnu / linux world on whims, I'll say it whether you like it or not.
generally not to say always the linux world fucks up the attitude of its users and to paraphrase your post: »fed up with the attitude of some linux users»
Well, since Ubuntu drinks from linux, if you're fed up, use osx xDDDDDDDDDDDDD
the same answer can be applied to you
haha, you deleted my comment, you ran out of arguments ?????
I can't delete comments, ghost.
The only way to keep Canonical down is with a clear alternative to Ubuntu. Obviously there is not one for a first-time user, who seeks ease and a solid project behind, which does not dissolve at the first change. With a solid company behind it, there are not too many: Fedora, too much test bed or OpenSUSE, too rigid for the home environment. The rest are projects of a handful of enthusiasts, always with the danger of discontinuity or are complicated to install and above all, configure. Yesterday I tried my umpteenth attempt to unmark Ubuntu, Antergos. I find that it has practically nothing installed as standard…. so I suspect post-installation must be an ordeal. I am not referring to specific programs like LibreOffice…. I almost prefer to be able to choose what I want to install…. but to things like packages so that the printer works, or the wifi, or the TV card…. and then configure them…. uuuufffff. That is what Ubuntu has given: a project with little chance of disappearing and a system to use from the beginning. Today this is only given by derivatives of Ubuntu itself…. although without Canonical behind. I have tried almost everything and I always go back to Ubuntu because problems always end up and I always end up struggling on the console, something that I had forgotten with Ubuntu. Fedora is the closest thing…. but I don't think it's meant to be stable. Arch has always been interested in RR but it is based on a community of enthusiasts I suspect a lot more precarious than Debian.
well, I don't know the truth, that is very very subjective, I have installed linux chakra to two friends who did not know anything about linux, and today I see them super happy using kde and chakra, and they do not know the truth much, but they could configure everything themselves, such as the theme of the printer or wacom tablet.
For me there are great alternatives to ubuntu, such as opensuse, pclinux os, even sabayaon itself (the installer gives automatic and it is super easy) etc etc, that a normal user can use. What happens is that they do not have money to fill the internet with advertising.
I can tell you, without fear of being wrong, that Linux Mint is a project that can live without Ubuntu. There are other distributions that are just as easy to use: Manjaro, Chakra, Neptune OS ... anyway. Ubuntu is no longer the only one that provides "something easy" to the user.
I am speaking to you from my personal experience. I like Gnome and I like Debian and there is none that does not create problems for me. Only in Ubuntu they are less.
Regarding Mint…. I don't think you can compare the power of Canonical and its planning. I guess comparable to Canonical there are only distros like Fedora.
Tanglu is new but promises Debian + KDE
But I don't think it's coming out yet. Have you looked at SolydXK? Is it Debian + KDE or Debian + XFCE
Linux Mint Debian is a clear example
I think Mint is already more than a project. The Debian Edition (LMDE) has been growing steadily, it is lighter than the one built on Ubuntu and, despite being based on a non-stable distro (Debian Testing), it works perfectly. I have been using it for more than a year and I must confess that it has brought me less trouble than Ubuntu and its permanent updates.
LMDE has been at its own pace for years, but keep in mind that unfortunately it was almost always in the background for the Linux Mint team, so they do not polish it as it deserves, that has caused the exaggerated frustration of some who they go on to look down on when in reality it is not a bad distro either.
Before I did not see badly that Mint prefer to be based on Ubuntu than on Debian because that way they saved work, but now thinking about it more I think that it would have been better if the main one was based on Debian and (for example) had a secondary edition based only on Ubuntu's LTS to please the majority of its users, which is what they usually try.
For many versions I have tried to unmark myself from Ubuntu while also solving my versionitis. I even tried Mint…. but nothing. Despite what I read, Ubuntu is still a step above in the sense of solving your life. I always find fewer problems in Ubuntu than in any other.
But the Unity issue, the new graphical server, the development line that is sometimes clear and sometimes confusing, etc ... .. and ultimately the decisions of recent years just like a cheap Steve Jobs .... It moves me in my attempt to forget Ubuntu.
At the moment I continue with Ubuntu GNOME and my current hopes are GNOME OS that I hope is a reality based on Debian, Antergos but more currada once installed or even a pure Debian if it adopts a somewhat faster evolution or RR.
This summer, with a little more time I might get down to the new Debian.
@jose, I totally identify with you, I'm also putting up with Ubuntu Gnome because of the comfort issue, but Canonical's attitude in the end will make me abandon Ubuntu
I do not agree. I installed Fedora on my sister's notebook, she didn't know anything about Linux. Also, to the familiar desktop, I installed openSUSE with GNOME and there has not been a single complaint.
Rigid opensuse for desktop environment?
But where do you get that from, if it's the opposite.
What there is to read.
Ubuntu is based on Debian, which is the true pioneer of the concept of ease of use in every sense of the word (desktop, servers, ARM devices…). Also, I started with Mandrake 9, which I was disappointed in its way of processing its .rpm packages which I ended up falling down rendered by Debian (the first version I used is 5 called Lenny, having some hiccups that Squeeze had fixed in the PC functions of desktop), but its ideology has been the same and I tried to find a distro similar to Debian that are derived from it, but I ended up going back to Debian (Thanks Ubuntu for using Sid as a base in your current releases and Testing in your LTS), In addition, other distros such as Slackware and CentOS have an equally stable base, but are less populated with fans and fanboys than Debian has (Thanks, EsDebian for making a bad name for the users of this magnificent distro, but I prefer to listen to the members of the FSF because at least they know how to support its foundations).
For Ubuntu users, I suggest to use the LTS, as they are at least more current than the normal Rolling Releases.
I installed an openSUSE for a buddy that he uses to watch movies, navigate, almost as a media center, and he's been with it for 2 months and he's delighted, and he only knew windows and little thing. The openSUSE thing too rigid, I don't know exactly what you mean.
Of course, the day Canonical makes a tool like the open Build Service, where you can compile a package for the distro you want, we'll talk. I will never again support Canonical because, since they have focused on their touch and their castles in the air, they are not doing anything for free software, unlike, for example, Suse.
And as the song said:
Where are we going to stop?
with this hurtful and absurd attitude
let's give way to humility ...
but hey, I'll use wayland because I use Fedora, the rest is the least of it.
Greetings.
http://goo.gl/7sOhh
I would say that I do not care but the truth is if it is true, it is not ethical to lie and wayland could well be taken advantage of, or is there a good reason to separate?
I prefer other distros instead of Ubuntu, and Unity is not much of a problem, the solution is a net install, XFCE and that's it, for now.
Why am I using Ubuntu at the moment? I screwed up Arch and I wanted a system that could immediately give me what I might need in an emergency. And today is that day.
Surprise that I find this article, it will be time to start thinking about Debian.
Put Debian parallel to Arch, so you get it from "fallback".
That's. Follow Debian.
Ponte Manjaro is basically doing with arch what Ubuntu made at first simplify its installation and use
Manjaro does not attract me much and I think the same as you. My only doubt is the continuity of the projects, which with the first versions of Ubuntu, before going up to the vine, were guaranteed by bCanonical. I expect the same with Antergos.
I believe that Ubuntu (Canonical) will have no choice and will have to keep both Mir, Wailand and xorg in the official repos in the future to support Ubuntu with Unity, KDE, Gnome etc.
It would be the most advisable to continue being one of the most used distros.
Now, there is a possibility of total independence from the rest of the linux systems. That would entail eliminating any environment other than Unity from Ubuntu, creating its own package format and entering Windows, Red Hat, SUSE and APPLE in the world of payment systems .. To know what Canonical will do ..
Easy: I would go bankrupt and Valve would bet more on Debian / Arch / Mint than Ubuntu.
Cannonical should be less ungrateful to its community who are doing their best to keep projects like Kubuntu, Xubuntu and family alive (I would still use Debian anyway for its incredible versatility and simplicity with which you can install this distro on almost any device ).
Unfortunately, Ubuntu is distributed by a company and they don't give a damn about the community, they are only interested in generating income.
And they are not capable of that ...
No one at [insert your pro Free Software non-profit organization] has asked my opinion or asked me if their distro works properly on my humble laptop. Ah of course! It must be because I am a minority and I am not a priority ...
That has nothing to do with it. Isn't Fedora sponsored by a company?
I use ubuntu because I have no choice and I installed it out of ignorance. In a few months it has become clear to me that Canonical thinks itself Apple and aspires to be dirtier and dirtier than its predecessor. The result will be what I experienced as a young man due to the outrages of Jobbs, a true step back, a technological middle age that was the arrival of the Mac. It was horrible, for decades we did not go beyond MSDOS.
When I can, I will make the leap to Devian pure and simple, or linux mint or even archlinux, I do not want to endorse this software buccaneer in any way.
To understand a little more about the subject, read the opinion of Malcer involved in the development of chakra: http://ext4.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/mark-shuttleworth-no-sabe-lo-que-quiere/#more-5756
Well, I'm very sorry but my Xubuntu works really well for me and at the moment I don't want to abandon it.
Pay no attention to them. Today they got up on the wrong side of the crib and this is what happens.
Sure Mark reading this post will shake! Decide to change course and everything. HAHAHA. Anyway, the things one reads around here.
Ah, I forgot, to please the trend of the post:
How bad is Ubuntu. BU-BU-BU. How bad it is!
Look that according to the statistics, scientific, demographic, cultural and technical studies that have been shown to support this post, they have opened my eyes to the truth so I burned all traces of something not free on my laptop. I started with Ubuntu but then it came out that the HDD was not "open hardware" and one thing led to another ... Btw I'm leaving because my time is running out in the cybercafé for being funny ...: C
apparently and read here what the anti-ubuntu say you have no idea what is really happening and you only support the SL because it is free and your PCs are worthy of the stone age and if you do not hurry to advance or centOS, nor should they run on them, so less fundamentalism and more pragmatism although it hurts and if not, pay for a copy of windows or OSX
yes ..., my pc with an intel i5 3570k and an nvidia gtx670, and 8 gb of ram, is from the stone age, go and lie down ...
Well then less taliban roll
Well, read the articles, use your understanding to understand what they say and then write, apply the story.
I read it, and I understood perfectly, writing a post of this kind does not raise the level of the blog, on the contrary it lowers it to the mud, I hope your next contribution is constructive
If telling the truth is a fight, then from tomorrow I will begin to say that Ubuntu is the best in the universe, that there is nothing better than unity and that canonical is reincarnated Jesus Christ, so you will be happy and as religious, you will applaud your savior full of joy.
oleee
No, apparently Jesus Christ is you, who has the absolute truth. Instead of speaking of opinion, you speak of truth, as the only and absolute. Cerrazónico to the maximum exponent.
Well, I'll be Jesus Christ, what do you want me to tell you? XDDDD
Don't worry that Mir's people are using TDD and everything is going to run great, and Unity is going to be the second version of Minehunt in QML.
Canonical knows exactly what it wants. A new Windows, but using Linux. Everything else you are saying is unnecessary, because you are all right. What is the solution? Linux users use this system for "freedom", very different from Windows or Mac. Does Ubuntu no longer represent that freedom? Well, it stops using and that's it. Personally I have never liked Ubuntu and I have not swallowed Canonical, because all this has been known and seen to come for a long time.
It is a study of everything that Ubuntu has supposed to be good at…. but also everything that has hurt. Mainly the too much identification of Linux with Ubuntu ... for the worse and the growth of quasi-Italian movements in favor of one distro or another.
Personally I will continue to use Linux; no longer because it is free or to avoid hacking or cracking procedures, which are increasingly problematic ... but because I think that up to one level, software is so fundamental in our lives that it should not be proprietary. It is like a basic good.
this looks very linux.
+1
+2
+1 #priceless
You're right, but at least there are a lot fewer fanboys here than there are on MuyLinux and EsDebian (how it could have rotted with fans and fanboys in such a short time!).
Anyway, I consult anything to this community or also to the English forum of Debian, Arch and others (thanks to my knowledge of intermediate English, of course).
add to that the trolls
XD . And think that DesdeLinux It was my refuge, where I could read comments without being afraid of seeing various insults and trolls.
So that people understand what is wrong with Mir I think it would be good to translate articles from the kwin developer where he explains everything quite simply.
I don't understand so much fuss, really ...
I believe Canonical has every right in the world to conduct their business as they see fit. So clear. Your code is there so that whoever wants to can forge it. Also, if someone develops an allergy to Ubuntu, they can choose any of the distros in the Linux universe: its use is not mandatory.
Now it turns out that Canonical is satan because it doesn't do what "the community" wants it to do ... have we gone crazy or what?
It seems clear to me that Canonical wants to develop a completely affordable distro to the "non-technical" user, that is, to everyone. Popularize it, come on. And it gives me the hunch that he is going to get it. I don't see a problem with that either. What's more, whether "the community" likes it or not, the entire Linux universe would benefit from it.
Anyway, I notice some discomfort about Ubuntu around here;). It is more productive to be positive.
A greeting.
translated, you have not read the article and you have not understood the closed drivers, anyway.
you are the only one who has read it apparently
troll and those who do not know how to do it well.
That way you don't troll! To troll there has to be sarcasm and acidity in their jokes.
I don't troll anything, I don't even have 2 accounts for it, being an Ubuntu user I consider myself affected by your post
Well, I don't think it would be true that it would benefit everyone from Linux. That would benefit the world of Ubuntu.
We have already seen that A LOT of people think that Linux is Ubuntu, which is not true, Ubuntu is Linux. I already have a friend who says, "It has a slash on one side, like Linux."
The "non-technical" user thing, not only Ubuntu exists, OpenSUSE and Sabayon are excellent distros for that purpose (from my point of view)
Depending, but among the Three Marys of stability (RHEL / CentOS, Debian, Slackware), many would opt for Debian because Ubuntu uses many of its controls as a base, also if you want a more windowser experience, I recommend CentOS / RHEL (plus RHEL if you want to pay the subscription for "exclusive" access to their repos and their precious blobs).
Ubuntu is only going to benefit Ubuntu. With their bread they eat it.
The irrational, selfish, treacherous and even fascist attitude of Ubuntu is something verifiable by all people with common sense at work. Of course, the muylinux.com fan base is excluded.
Since 2010, this has been seen to come ... I sadly remember versions like Hardy Heron or Karmic Koala, the ones I used and encouraged, to now become this ...
Aha! I found you here too, "Nostradamus." That happened to you for not using your powers at that time….
Sure, you found me, what a fool I was not to change my nickname and not to mention the other forum so as not to be discovered, right?
Hahaha… at last it's true, the world is a handkerchief.
by the way, for those who want to see the advances of kwin in wayland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_uRUIctGd0&feature=player_embedded
I think you are forgetting something that the philosophy of free software gives you, TOTAL FREEDOM and that is where you can make or break, that some like it is a problem, that others accept it is another problem and more now that we need an alternative to window 8 shit, users will look for an alternative easy enough to use as their old next next and well, I feel that this is the alternative that Canonical is creating, similar to Mac but with the alternative of being "free" (in its ambiguity total) to that is added "miun" (amazon and others), something that is widely used by other types of users, for the rest we have what we already know, we have the classic which appeals to us and inspires us to continue giving it a special touch to GNU / Linux, it is true that it will leave many with a bad taste, but what we know has not done
Well said. But the author refers to the "4 freedoms" that have been proclaimed by the Free Software Foundation, in which Cannonical does not respect freedom 3 or 4. freedom.
The thing about total freedom is a myth. There are licenses (this is one of Mir's big problems).
Well, I think that those who will end badly here are canonical.
From our point of view (mostly desktop linux users) Canonical is a giant, but in reality it is rather tiny (in linux the money is not on the desktop).
Behind wayland there are technology giants in addition to being a protocol focused on stability and it has an MIT license (from what I read it is much better commercially and more compatible than the GPLv3 with Mir's CLA)
Mir is "protocol-agnostic" targeting only ubuntu and so far has no clear technical advantages over wayland.
I don't want ubuntu to go bad, I started my adventures with linux in Karmic Koala and to this day I keep fondness for this distro, but I don't think Mir is a smart move. Those resources would be better invested elsewhere.
Anyway you don't have to be so pessimistic, there are more and more efforts on the part of making the drivers independent of the graphic server, which would solve many problems 😀
Sorry, this comment was not directed at you NayosX XD
Ubuntu has become almost a standard for proprietary software developers. Software is generated certifying that it runs on that version of Ubuntu.
I don't want to be mean, but very few people use linux. And most of it uses Ubuntu. If I have to develop proprietary software, (I doubt that I will do it for linux, but if I did I would do it so that it runs only on Ubuntu, I would only worry about it) They even have a software store. The channel through which my product will be sold.
Here the whining is for proprietary software and drivers. What are they escaping from in Windows or not?
Your debian or archlinux will continue to work fine with free software and free drivers. If you want privative and go to Windows.
If you want proprietary use Ubuntu, or go to Windows. I hope that Ubuntu gets away from so much fanaticism and includes the proprietary drivers by default, and proprietary codecs by default.
In ArchLinux, they don't even separate free from proprietary software. In Debian if they separate and it seems stupid to me.
Pandev92 just won't affect my user agent: p
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
I am not bothered by anything about your User-Agent. What's more, I'm envious that you're using RHEL (to tell the truth, it's the really close to MS Windows in GNU / Linux).
What canonical or what I do not care if they say they do not support wayland, maybe the Ubuntu people are the only ones, surely there are better developers, they do it for their use. It was always like this, they were based on Debian and used the best that Debian had. It was always like that, no problem, it's not the first time and it sure isn't the last, hahaha, so you don't have to make a storm in a glass of water. The best thing is to have options and to be able to choose, the decision you make for convenience, principles or tastes at least have variety to choose from!
It hurts who hurts Ubuntu is the only distro that can compete with Windows 7 for desktop use (Watch movies, Play, Listen to music, surf the Internet, write in word?). In all the others you will have to start repairing things that you should not be repairing. (Except in the derivatives of Ubuntu ...)
Nevertheless. Windows is superior haha. Fuck it.
Mmmmm ... I do not agree, I do not think Windows 7, but the latest crap may be.
Pandev92, our community is a stick of dynamite and you just lit the fuse. BOOM! I haven't finished reading the comments, but it looks like it's going to be a HUGE blast 😀. I wish you luck 😉
Ubuntu. It reminds me of windows 8.
Me too
Honestly, I already saw Ubuntu coming with its "intentions" to monopolize everything and when I talk about everything it is not only with the mentality of defeating windows and mac but also free software, it is incredible how this canonical turn has been done, but well less bad There are distributions like Debian, which will never leave their ideals and many others like Trisquel that will continue to fuck an Ubuntu so rebellious that it has been purified of only free software, the mentality of the company is the same as that of Microsoft and Apple rather Now it's Microsoft vs Apple vs Canonical, because not even Red Hat has gotten into so much impudence, and excuse me for answering you from Windows Vista, but I'm at the house of a friend who is half stubborn and hasn't wanted to switch to GNU / Linux hehehehe. regards!
Totally agree.
I forgive you for the Windows Vista thing, since that's my favorite fiasco too (I'd use it on a Core i7 with NVIDIA 1.5GB video, 7GB RAM and you know all that cuteness). However, Trisquel is not the only GNU / Linux distro that is certified by the FSF, but also other forks like Parabola, which is a fork of Arch with 100% free software.
As for Debian, it will still be the best GNU / Linux distro out there, as it is the 2nd. distro with which I really introduced myself to the GNU / Linux universe and now I'm commenting from my PC with Debian Oldtable (squeeze) that it urgently needs a giant F5 that requires installing Wheezy with XFCE (Forgive me if my user agent does not tell me if I use really Debian, but I'm commenting from Google Chrome 26).
Let's see, let's see if I understood the post, and I take a comment already given
«Companies many times when they develop for linux, they only generate a .deb package, if Canonical continues with their plans and X company decides to develop for linux ... maybe it only does it for Ubuntu, for example Steam is only available for Ubuntu in packages .deb (I mean officially) »
So if I understood correctly:
* As the ubuntu graphical server is under development, and the tablet products, televisions and what happens to me will use said graphical server.
* As they are paid products, they will be more attractive to driver manufacturers, and these, like steam, will only develop for Ubuntu.
* When developing only for Ubuntu, the rest of us will be left with a span of noses, we would only have to acquire intel equipment.
Correct me if I did not understand, but if my assessment is correct, it will not be worth changing the distribution.
Now, with the promise of ubuntu to always be free and accessible, won't it be possible for ubuntu to do like redhat, a paid distribution (the new thing you are creating) and a free one (which is ubuntu without the changes on your server etc. )?
For now everything is supposition, since it has not happened.
Good article
If the repos of the LTS versions of Ubuntu are fully compatible with the Debian Stable versions. I do not understand why this speech of so much fanboy.
[sarcasm] In any case @ pandev92, if you don't agree with the proprietary software, I recommend that you use Intel hardware and install the Arch fork called Parabola, which is certified by the Free Software Foundation through the Project GNU [/ sarcasm].
since kernel 3.8 I can't boot any distro: / with intel hd4000 graphics, report the error, but it seems that kernel 3.9.2 has not been fixed, I only get a black screen ...
This shows that Red Hat had an important reason why it was forced to keep the kernel version 2.6.x
I am going to explain to you, in the event that the developers of proprietary drivers were not able or did not want to create a driver independent of the graphic server, it could probably be that this driver only runs in mir, which only works in Ubuntu. So it would no longer be a driver for linux, but it would be a driver for ubuntu, as generally the drivers for android are not usually compatible with linux (that is changing).
In any case, if what I say happened, it would be comparable in making a windows driver work in linux ..., it simply wouldn't work.
For me, the canonical ones went to the head of the tickets $$$$$$
If they were "raised" (it is a company, after all), I do not even want to imagine the number of tickets that Red Hat has raised!
In short, your argument has no substance or validity in this mess of flame put together by the author of this post: they fight over crap.
well, you're an ubuntu user, asking you for neutrality and thinking for others is like asking a maquero an opinion on any other operating system.
At least those of Red Hat do things with transparency and do not send statistical data of what their users do, Red Hat is too serious a company to deal with those things.
Things should fall under their own weight (I mean support from Nvidia and others), I think there is misgivings and even fear on the part of those who got on the Wayland bandwagon, Ubuntu hasn't sabotaged Wayland, maybe he said things he shouldn't have said about what Wayland can or can't do, I think that's the only objectionable point and Canonical should be more careful on that. Now I don't think Canonical is selfish because it wants to do things as it understands, selfish series only if it does not share its products with the community later.
If you do not share them, what is the case, although even sharing them there is no case because they are custom products (Ubuntu-> Mir-> Unity)
I think Mark is already bored with the philosophy that gave life to this distro >> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(filosof%C3%ADa)
To say that ubuntu is fragmenting Linux more is kind of funny when the whole Linux world is mega-fragmentation, puff
Free software, or if we want to simplify Linux, has always been, let's face it, "a great whorehouse." Canonical has done nothing but set up its own lupanar. If he's good or bad, time will judge him, but the whores are his and he fucks them whenever he wants.
Everyone knows that attacking Ubuntu is mainstream, a distro without which many today would still be opening and closing windows. As they say, "Raise crows and they'll tear your eyes out."
this is a clear and well-argued answer, totally agree with you +1
You honor your nickname
Maybe you doubted? but troll x troll = troll ^ 2
If the hatters bitch users with Fedora or Suse with openSuse by making them covert BetaTesters from their commercial systems, that's wonderful and nobody says anything.
But if Ubuntu decides to continue on its way it seems that a plague epidemic fell on the earth.
In short "Haters Gonna Hate".
It's good that a distro shakes up the world of FREE SOFTWARE so much.
For many years, as most believe, I have tried countless distributions and honestly, I have always returned to Ubuntu.
Personally I got sick of Arch and its endless downloads, the apathy of the Debian community and its passivity towards users, the constant and sudden changes of Chakra, the enormity (useless) of Sabayon software, the slowness of Linux Mint and so on, things that tire a common user.
Speaking a few years ago with a friend, we commented that installing Ubuntu and using it takes a little less than two hours, if you install on a new computer, it will surely recognize you if not everything, a large percentage of the hardware. The other distros leave you halfway, you have to fight to configure a driver or the buttons of the Fn keys (who did not happen to him?)
The best of all this, the most beneficial thing that I see is that within the world of SL we have an infinite range of possibilities to use what gives us the gift.
Today I use Ubuntu, my NEW notebook appreciates it since of everything I tried it was the one that the hard recognized the most. Tomorrow maybe I'll install another distro and still be happy, and as an end user don't measure if it's Wayland, Mir, or the old Xorg. As long as it works, welcome!
The flame and the spiel of whether it is right or wrong ... I think it's a waste of time, gentlemen. It is my humble opinion-
Regards!
In my opinion, the person who can most favor the development of drivers is neither Canonical nor RH. For me it is clearly Valve. At the end of the day, raw graphics are used to play mostly.
I think I read recently that even Blizzard was going to release a WoW client for linux. I assure you that if Valve and Blizzard develop for Linux nvidia will do it, and probably ATI too ...
This post is garbage…
1 - For there to be a betrayal there must be an oath of loyalty.
2 - That two people work in different developments that cover the same need is not a problem. If for you it is a reason for criticism, how many more should you criticize?
3 - The big problem of canonical is not to COMMUNICATE, but it is their decision, they NEVER promised anything, to someone yes? The wayland thing is not a promise, I would not take seriously a company that says "We promise to incorporate such development" and if it does not meet your needs?
For the rest, I would have liked CANONICAL to collaborate with wayland, but anyway.
PS: A company does not have MORALS or ETHICS, people do ...
There are many people who work in canonical and who support free software a lot, saying Canonical this, Canonical that, surrounds them ...
Thanks for letting me read, excellent post.
Incredible what these issues degenerate. Today it is impossible to talk about certain things, it is pure fanaticism, no matter what is said, if it is not to kiss the ass of the corresponding «God», the party is already set
However much it is explained, said and however well expressed it may be, the result is always the same.
I think this is the article where the situation is most clearly explained, things are not being done well, it is what there is and what we will have to deal with, both those who see things from another perspective and some fear from the other side , such as those who are "dazzled" looking from the inside and who are the ones who are most likely to suffer the consequences if things end as they seem to end.
It's like I always say, it's very, very difficult to find objective opinions in the Linux world lately.
If they depend so much on Suttleworth's "breakthroughs" and "innovation", then I think things are already wrong. What does custom software do? Since always, what has taken advantage of the open source community and has not returned anything? Of course, Ubuntu is "Linux for Subhuman beings" who do not want to compile anything or use the console; not to contribute or give them a standard graphic server (and who wants them to standardize the software? for what? for the new Apple? hahaha). What Ubuntu is the new Windows? For a long time in fact (they wanted to be the new Mac OS, but Unity is so horrendous that not even Suttleworth's uber-grandmother uses it, who installed Gnome Classic as soon as she could so it's just a Redmond-like imitation). We cry like muffins every time Linux gamers cannot run their beloved little games with their old graphics from the previous decade because there is installed their partition with Windows 7 piratota so that they continue playing their bullshit, do not do it. This Pandev92 when it is bad, is very funny.
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD * ROFL »XD
Canonical seems to forget that it was the community that made it great, without the support of the community it will not get very far.
To have children do not fight! this is not VERY UBUNTU! HEH. seriously, do not forget a private company is a PRIVATE COMPANY! And I have not seen the first one who prefers to give away than to receive canonical earnings and what interests him in triumph over suse, red hat and even over microsoft than what can happen to the community. Already clear at this point all these maneuvers are normal and it would not be strange that someday ubuntu is another windows or osx more. So calm down.
They don't want to use wayland or xorg or anything else in the community, because THAT'S THEIR PEO, THEY WILL SEE WHAT THEY DO, THEY WILL SEE HOW THEY SOLVE IT AND IF THEY WANT THEY NOT TO DO IT! something like Mr. Liuns said a while ago I KNOW….!
the community will survive, it will not be the end of gnu / linux, and I say that I use Kubuntu and a derivative of debian.
What if I find it grotesque is the way of treating the community, like what the last comment says, something like (well, I understand it), go to shit ... I no longer need them and I don't need to you, I already used everything you needed ... what a cheek
What should happen is that gradually the community should turn its back on Canon like they do now (kubuntu, lubuntu xubuntu ... remember? And that's the end of the problem.
Canonical can do whatever it wants, whatever it understands, whatever comes out of Mark Shuttleworth's soul. It is up to us users to decide whether or not their plans and goals will be successful.
Ubuntu is not GNU / Linux, nor is GNU / Linux Ubuntu. Remember that Ubuntu without Debian is nothing, and neither are the pseudo-distributions that are derived from it, but there is a problem that is real: Ubuntu is still the reference for "everyone who does not know" what GNU / Linux is, when you say Linux, you say Ubuntu, and if to make matters worse, the manufacturers believe the same, we are screwed.
If Intel, AMD, NVidia, only put themselves to give support and importance to Mir, the work of Xorg or Wayland would be much more cumbersome. Although good, I understand that Mir without Wayland is nothing. Anyway.
I wish and many Ubuntu users would stop using this distro, because that would be the only way Canonical would put its head in its place and stop fucking around so much. Okay, they want to make money, it's okay if it's a company, but don't come to screw our lives.
Intel is behind wayland and neither AMD nor nvidia are going to support either of them in the near future, most likely you will have to use free drivers for a long time, although I suppose that making drivers for Mir or wayland should be simpler than for X.org.
Well, I couldn't tell you because I'm not a developer. Hopefully this is not a problem, because then if you don't use Intel, forget about AMD or NVidia cards.
Apparently there have also been efforts on the side to develop independent graphics server drivers. That would be a big step forward.
since I see that you use Debian I need to know if the Intel HD4000 works well in this distro
I honestly couldn't tell you. My Chipset I don't think is that advanced.
Working works, but I always advise you to use testing, for the intel hd4000, since they tend to improve with each new kernel ...
@ pandev92:
Thanks, is that soon I will have one and I would like to continue with debian
uhhh! and the spirit of this whole discussion was summed up in one sentence by the great Elav "I wish many Ubuntu users would stop using this distro, because that would be the only way Canonical would put its head in its place and stop screwing around so much"
envy…? jealous of what is ubuntu? bad news for everyone who wants ubuntu to fail, more and more users will come to ubuntu, for a simple reason, the constant disappointment that windows is causing among its users and that ubuntu is the most beautiful distribution and the only one that manages to conquer the heart of those who migrated from the dark world of Microsoft. Ubuntu simply falls in love 😉 it hurts whoever hurts
Envy and jealousy of Ubuntu? Hahahahahaha… Don't make me laugh. What do I have to envy Ubuntu? Unity? Mir? Ubuntu Phone OS? Because none of this I need. First of all I use Debian, which has nothing to envy Ubuntu, except the PPAs, which they don't have because they don't want to and it goes against stability and security. I don't use GNOME, so I don't care about Unity, because although I like their philosophy of "we copy Mac", in practice it is slow with so much Lens. Mir? With Xorg I am left over.
I did not say that you quote because of Ubuntu envy, but because the only way for Mark to discover if he is wrong or is on the right track is depending on how his users act, although there are so many fans in this world, that even being Ubuntu the worst distribution ever made, they will never recognize it and keep using it because they think they are special.
It's my opinion before lunch.
as you have nothing to envy ubuntu. Elav, they have hundreds of better projects than your blog and they have contributed more to Linux than you, as you have nothing to envy and at least thank you for.
They will have hundreds of better projects than my blog, but "My blog" does not take advantage of OpenSource for its benefit and it always returns "something" to its Community, which in the end, that has always been our main objective.
Excuse me, but if you think Canonical has better projects than this blog, why are you here and not using those "projects"? The truth seems to me that it is a very rude comment. It is good that we share an opinion, as long as it is respectful (well ... the post is not very respectful with Canonical / Ubuntu or its users, but at least we must set an example).
I don't know how you can compare a blog with a distro…., It's a desire to troll.
Mm, troll in sight.
what all debianita envies ubuntu elav ... its popularity ...! I don't know if you saw the question marks, it was never a statement, but as they say, if it bites you scratch!
I don't have an itch .. Ubuntu users will have itch when they realize that they are under a company that every day wants to be more like Apple and Microsoft .. And when they realize it and want to run away, then it will be when I, from my Debian, I'll see you all scratching yourself. Muajajajaa
What do you have to envy? Well, the KDE 4.10, for example, the one you tried to install on your debian through ppa. A liar is caught sooner than a lame man.
I did not install KDE 4.10 through a PPA, however, as I said above, PPAs are something to be envied, which Debian doesn't have because it doesn't want to, but I can do without them perfectly .. 😛
You didn't install it from one ppa, but before you did the hodgepodge to install it, you tried
Understand something, in the end you are trolling and I am following the flow, but it does not matter, I tell you anyway: The PPAs are not from Ubuntu, they are maintained by Community users .. so .. I have no problem with that.
Do we envy the millions that Uncle Mark has? hehehe, elav to ubuntu there is nothing to envy, I share your opinion
I think Ubuntu is the best option for those who want to leave Windows and go to the Linux world. But once some experience is gained, it is not so attractive because there are much better distros. Ubuntu is the door through which you enter a world that you begin to discover later. This has happened to a lot of people (including myself).
(I clarify that I write from the notebook with Mint 13 "Maya", despite the fact that the symbol that appears in the comment is Ubuntu. And my main OS is LMDE, on the PC).
"... and if to make matters worse, the manufacturers believe the same, we are screwed ...". Difficult, Elav, those who are in that market know very well that Linux also passes on the other side, through much more important bases. The issue goes through business. If they see that Ubuntu is expanding, they will see the "leg" and they will surely turn on, but not because they believe that Ubuntu is GNU / Linux.
This is also clear to me, but here there is a lot of paranoia. They give Canonical much more power than it has ... it seems that marketing has worked more on non-Ubuntu users than on the "ubuntoos" themselves.
It seems that sometimes they forget that most of the people who use a computer are not programmers nor are they interested in how the operating system works, they simply use the best available and the most accessible and although Windows is not the best available, it is the most accessible because it is already installed by default and it is also the one that the vast majority know, or would you install an operating system whose existence you do not know? And that is where Ubuntu contributes its grain of sand because, although many people may regret it, Ubuntu is the most popular distribution and version 13.04 is certainly one of the most stable, at least on my computer and I clarify that I already tested Debian 7. On the other hand, I have read comments saying that Ubutnu does not listen to the community, and I wonder what distribution, of the popular ones, does? Perhaps Chakra took out a poll to consult the community when it decided to stop supporting 32-bit equipment or when they changed the Bundles system for the “extra” repository or perhaps Debian consulted the community when it imposed Gnome-shell as the main environment of its current stable version despite so many criticisms. In short, there is no worse blind than the one who does not want to see.
I don't know what world you live in, but since unity exists, more than one person who had gone from windows xp to ubuntu, told me to install a distro with kde…. Unity is the failed attempt to copy osx, but to the shabby and heavier.
Chakra stopped using bundles because everyone was complaining about them, in debian you can download the iso with the environment you want, if not, I'm wrong.
And I suppose you are aware that the world is very big and that the fact that your friends do not like it does not mean that most of them do not like it, for example, it is enough to say that three of my friends to whom I have installed Ubuntu if you liked it but that is not why I say that unity is the best environment, or anything like that, that is why I did not mention unity in my comment but, however, the stability of the new version is well documented on the internet. As for Debian, your argument is not valid because if it were then I do not understand why you complain about Ubuntu and its Unity when there is Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, etc.
one, I complain that unity is a crap and a copy of osx and very heavy (compiz inside), two of course you can use anything else, it would only be missing, although well, probably since 14.04, you can only use unity, given That the very * intelligent * of canonical who go from year of financial losses to year, it occurred to them to work on another graphic server, that when they saw the work they did with unity, at least two years are going to be a mess.
But hey, there is no more blind than the one who does not want to see.
Comment directed at pandev92
1.- When I mentioned Debian and its choice of gnome-shell as the main environment, it was to point out that the fact that the other distros do listen to the community was pure story and apparently you have run out of arguments to refute this.
2.- As far as Unity seems to you a crap and a copy of OSX, there is not much to say since it is something subjective, I personally do like it although it has many things to improve.
3.- About the graphical server and about not being able to use another desktop environment in Ubuntu I really doubt it, although I am certainly not a programmer or anything like that, but if man could reach the moon I do not believe that this be a very big technological challenge. Also, that speculating about what might or might not happen, without giving solid arguments, makes no sense because, like you, I could say that mir will become the best graphical server that has ever existed and that KDE is also will account for its error and will support mir, but it is only speculation that nothing contributes and on the contrary, it only creates conflicts in the Linux community.
Please can you tell me where all the criticism is? In other words, Debian thought of using Xfce by default, and that was communicated to The Community. If in the end they decided to go back to GNOME (which has always been their Default Environment) they have not betrayed anyone, furthermore, Debian releases other DE CD / DVDs like KDE, XFCE and LXDE.
So you, anti-ubuntu, if you can use arguments like: ubuntu does not listen to the community for imposing unity, ubuntu does not listen to the community for creating mir, etc., without presenting evidence, but when someone attacks their distributions favorites using similar arguments, then if they scream in the sky. If you don't present solid proof then don't demand it either. In addition, communicating is not the same as asking, because if we go to those, Ubuntu also reported that it would use unity in its future versions.
So the pending work is quite a lot, old man, because you have to continue showing everyone the other alternatives and show companies like the ones you name that there is life after Ubuntu. By the way this blog helps a lot in that sense
I found articles about the advantages of wayland on X.org in case anyone is interested (they are in English)
http://vignatti.com/2012/10/17/the-damn-small-wayland-api/
http://blog.mecheye.net/2012/06/the-linux-graphics-stack/
a question for the author:
1) How old are you?
2) Do you have a social life?
3) What distro did you start with?
1) I'm 21 years old
2) I am a politician and I have a lot of social life, at least in my environment.
3) I started with fedora, then linux mint and finally ubuntu
pandev, I need to ask if you have a girlfriend, hehe
xDDD lately I only have friends for nights xddd, I'm not in the mood for a girlfriend it would be ahahhaa
These are the things that annoy some Ubuntu users.
Practically and without saying it explicitly, Fernando wanted to tell the author that for having a different opinion, he is a child, he does not know what he is saying, and he has no social life. Also, since he assumed that the author had started with Ubuntu, he intended to detract from the criticism for that reason.
Yes, some Ubuntu users are pedantic. As I know they are the least (much less), than the respectable users of Ubuntu. The problem is that these unpresentables are very noticeable.
And note that above I have given my reasons for disagreeing with what the author said.
Greetings.
Most of the comments made with the stomach.
I only rescue the comments of @Acuadros, @Juancarlos and @ DevilTroll and nothing else.
It is what it is.
Tired of the criticism of Canonical by closed Linux users who do not let this progress.
Tired of the criticism of Canonical for being a company that has managed to place itself behind Windows and Apple with free software, something that nobody had achieved before.
You are afraid, afraid that Ubuntu is a widely used Linux and you stop being the closed users of a minority operating system.
Linux deserves Ubuntu, and it deserves that it triumph, and anyone who does not support is after a successful Linux does nothing but kill the best operating system there is.
For that reason, in the absence of all this mob to stop barking and dedicate itself to supporting the operating system, instead of locking it up more and more, I abandon Linux, and return to Windows, where despite its registry, its viruses, etc ... I have more peace of mind than with Linux and its users Experts who do not want it to emerge.
RedHat has long been on top of Windows and Apple, which happens that they only focused on the Servers issue, and believe me, Canonical is a long, long way from reaching RedHat.
No father deserves to have his son deny him, after having received all his love and affection since he was born. The last straw is that Ubuntu does not talk about the Linux Kernel, but about the Ubuntu Kernel.
To support Ubuntu? Ubuntu does not support me, Ubuntu is not interested in me or any other user you call rabble. Ubuntu is interested in making money ... more than anything. At least I do support Debian, Fedora, openSUSE, ArchLinux, etc etc etc ..
One last thing, and I tell you from respect, if you go back to Windows it is because you want to. Don't use Linux users as an excuse, because even though I can't agree with many, that's not why I'm going to another OS.
I returned to Windows, on my personal computer, after 5 years or more in Gnu / Linux because Miguel de Icaza made me see reality with his experience. Linux, I will use it on servers or where appropriate. But not as a substitute for Windows for personal PCs.
It seems good to me from the point of view that it is your decision and you have to respect it.
I also use Win7, as you will see, and it is for obvious reasons that we all already know, in addition to my camera, but that is aside.
Anyway, articles like this (@ pandev92, several times I agree with your comments, but the articles are not written with the stomach, but with the head, but the objectivity is always lost), and the comments they provoke are the that lead many to not use or leave Linux.
The lack of consensus, as well as acceptance or support, misleads not only users but also the market (and I am not talking about the famous fragmentation).
Imagine a scenario where Mir turns out to be so much better than Xorg and Wayland. What are those currently writing articles like this going to have to do? Watch out, guys, look at the keyboard enemas must hurt.
I learned the hard way that there are times when you have to know how to reflect, observe and be patient. I have written a couple of articles on the Burjans Blog, as well as some other comments, which later led me to swallow my words when comparing other distros with Fedora and reviling the latter, and all for writing from my own momentary unease, and then finish returning to the blue hat with his head down.
You have to realize a good time that Linux is still in constant evolution, in an almost constant state of Beta. I have already convinced myself that there are only two (YES, TWO only) distributions that can really be called LINUX OPERATING SYSTEM (not screaming) with all the letters: RedHat and Debian. One charges, the other does not, if you don't want to pay for RedHat there is Centos, which is exactly the same. The rest? The rest takes from them and makes the versioniticos and various other irremediable fans happy who do not tire of comparing Linux with Windows, without seeing that one and the other have absolutely nothing to do with it, that each one is very good in its own way.
Well, I went around the bush….}
Greetings.
1.- You say that Ubuntu denies Debian, and I wonder what Ubuntu is supposed to do in order not to deny Debian? because in case you have not noticed on the web there is a wealth of information about Ubuntu and its dependency on debian http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/ubuntu-and-debian
Or what else did you expect? Isn't it the same as manjaro with arch, fuduntu (at the time) with fedora, linux mint with ubuntu, etc, etc.
2.- You say that Ubuntu no longer talks about the linux kernel but about the ubuntu kernel, ERROR, to show a vast button https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseNotes#Linux_kernel_3.8.8
If you notice it says that ubuntu uses the "ubuntu linux kernel" which is based on the "linux kernel" in other words, Ubuntu modifies free software, in this case the kernel, and changes the name but referring to the latter , and I ask myself (again), is this not one of the advantages that is so widely presumed of free software? but it seems that, as it is about ubuntu, then you have to look for the perverse side of the matter and phrases like "ubuntu takes advantage of the work of others", "ubuntu wants to take all the credit", etc. come up.
3.- You say that Ubuntu does not support you. As I see it, Ubuntu makes a distribution available to you for free download, or what else did you expect? What does Debian, Arch, OpenSuse, Fedora, etc. do? For you, what makes you believe that they care more than Ubuntu?
4.- You say that Ubuntu only cares about money, please, is a little maturity too much to ask? Not everything is black and white, if they want money they have to offer a good service, if not, there is no future, unless they are a monopoly like Microsoft, or the television stations of my country (Mexico) but let's face it, it is more likely that there is life in the sun for ubuntu to become a monopoly.
Well, to begin with, make compatible everything they do thanks to the efforts of Debian. And by that I mean new libraries and dependencies that only use them, for example Unity.
I'm pretty sure Ubuntu doesn't modify the kernel at all, or at least very little. Debian modifies many more things and does not call the kernel "debian linux kernel".
Look at the latest events that have been happening .. How many members of the Community has Ubuntu taken into account to do them? Did they ask you by any means, a forum, an email, or something similar?
I am not going to go into the maturity issue, but, I think you are quite optimistic that Canonical will not become some kind of Monopoly within the GNU / Linux world. Time will tell us the last word.
There are a few things that smell bad, Unity Next says that it will be done in QML and that the binding of Qt for Mir QMir is in development but I see on launchpad that this project has not been modified since March mmm ... finished?
Wow, the one who has gotten involved with the flame post xD, I think this topic has a tail, but you have to see all the different points of view of this:
Is removing Mir existing Wayland silly ?. Absolutely yes, because it closes Ubuntu even more, and Unity. Apart from the fact that Mir is a graphical pseudo-server, it is rather a protocol, which cannot work (at the moment) without X.org or Wayland.
Nor do I think that it is necessary to detract from Ubuntu, it has managed to make Linux popular, but what can be done, but I do not share, is to make yourself popular and then gradually shut down and move on from those that have made you popular, abandon the essence of Linux and GNU and take advantage of the work of others without giving anything in return. THAT'S THE DEFINABLE. Because the latter is what Canonical has done, it has taken advantage of Gnome, its tools, Debian, its packages and its repositories, GNU and Linux, and then hide it within Ubuntu, and insinuate that these projects are his work, such as naming the kernel as if it were his invention, not naming Debian anywhere, much less Gnome (which if not because of some programs that put it in »About» and does not leave). THAT SUCKS.
Because you will agree more or less with the philosophy of a project, but the minimum by license is to say who is its author, and that is something that Canonical does not do.
And if that is not respected, that they catch on Debian and block Canonical's use of their repositories, or that they catch on Gnome and prevent them from using their desktop ... some will tell me now, but that is against the philosophy or objectives of Those projects, yaaa, just like not saying who is the author of the software, so if they go through life passing through the backing the merits and authorship of the projects of others, the latter can also go through the backing this .
I will also say another thing, before the divisions within Linux were less noticeable, one was from one distro or another, from one desktop or another, but the respect was mutual. Now anyone puts Linux on their PC and thinks they are the king of the mambo, and they come to troll and give lessons to others. For me, these users are the ones who harm Linux, and unfortunately, many of them are developers of Canonical, or of other projects, and their low tolerance for others is what causes problems.
If you want to be closed-minded, and not thank others for using your software, it's simple, go to Mac OS or Windows. But in Linux, if you are going to take advantage of other people's work, the minimum is to thank them and contribute, which in Canonical they do not. And if they want to create their closed and incompatible OS, let them create it for themselves, with its core, its Unity of shit ** and its tools (which in my personal opinion are very poorly made) that it is already good to take the job of others.
And the latest version of Ubuntu is more stable, and Unity has improved its performance, but it is still slow and heavy, regardless of who it weighs.
I'm reading the comments, and you talk about Gnu-Linux as if all distros meet the necessary criteria to be considered free-software. If you listen to Stallman, none of the ones you cite can be considered that way, nor Debian that includes proprietary software.
Unity is a project that aims to implement a single interface (with small changes) for all devices, tablets, mobiles, pc, tv ... And ensure access to all your files regardless of the device you are using. This is not what other distros are looking for, who do not want to get out of the desktop pc of a lifetime. I understand as logical that Canonical has to find its own alternative, since it is evident that Wayland does not look for what the South African company is looking for.
Another thing is that, in that I agree with most of the comments, the way of doing it has been quite creepy and I did not like their cynicism, it seems to me a tremendous disregard.
We all know that in the world of free and semi-free software, there is no way to agree on anything at all. Each Distro has its own way of packaging, and those of us who get hurt with this misunderstood variety are the users,
So we continue, after so many years, that yes .deb yes rpm .., and the truth is, I don't think it is so difficult to agree on minimums, what is missing is the will, that's what I would really do that free and semi-free software were a uniformity, at least in essentials.
But seen what we have seen, it is an impossible dream, as impossible as Windows making the code of "seven" public. The real losers are us, the users.
Why bother with what ubuntu does as if its "big" advances affected Debian.
Linux Mint is always better than Ubuntu, but debian and arch will always be better.
Tremendous flame the one that was armed here.
The truth is that the situation of Canonical-Ubuntu and its projects does not matter to me, as long as it does not negatively affect others. And coming to this, how would Mir affect spin-off projects like, for example, Xubuntu?
Well, it affects that those of xcfe decide to port it to mir, pus will have to be used with wayland or continue with the x, in the first case it could be the fact that you do not have support from nvidia or amd, officially, but still we will have to wait, in a year we will know.
OK, then let's see what happens.
pandev92:
They asked you about Xubuntu, not xfce. You are responding as if what you do in Ubuntu with Unity is going to affect what you do in Xubuntu, and even worse, as if what is done in xubuntu is going to prevail in xfce.
Cookies:
What Canonical is doing with Mir and Qt / QML is exclusive to the Unity graphical business both on PC and mobile devices, but the base system (which in turn is pulled from Debian) will remain the same, and the community in charge of Xubuntu , for what corresponds to the mouse's desk, you will have to abide by what Xfce decides and not Canonical. As pandev already mentioned to you, in XFCE they have not mentioned anything yet (they have not "taken sides" in this fight, then), and they will have to decide whether to go with Wayland or Mir, or flatly remain "neutral" and stay in X.
but that would have been asking a non-ubuntu user for neutrality and fairness
Not at all, what I was saying is that if xcfe doesn't take sides, xubuntu can't do anything to accommodate anything.
FINALLY THIS IS THE BIG PROBLEM DRIVEN BY THE FAMOUS "LINUX FRAGMENTATION."
MIGUEL DE ICAZA (GNOME DEVELOPER) WAS RIGHT, THAT HE ESCAPED THIS BIG PROBLEM AND OPTED TO SWITCH TO MAC, WHERE HE IS SURE THAT EVERYTHING WILL WORK WELL FOR HIM AND HE DIDN'T MAKE LIFE MORE COMPLICATED.
WELL, THAT'S THE SAD REALITY OF THE LINUX WORLD, IT HURTS WHOEVER HURTS, BUT THIS IS COMING TO AN END
If you are talking about freedom in the linux world, then what is the problem? Canonical is entitled to do whatever he wants with his distro, if you don't like it, because there are a lot to choose from, you waste a lot of time writing this type of post when you should publish something that attracts more users to Linux I think it does not even reach 4% in the world, why? For this type of publication, new users are looking for alternatives other than windows and what impression do they take with this market lawsuit? in the end they end up coming back without having been able to clarify their doubts. I see a lot of fanaticism from one side to another and this does not contribute to the spread of free software with greater force. This is indirect advertising to Ubuntu whether we like it or not because they are always making news for better or for worse, and although it hurts when talking about Linux, the first thing people on the street tell you is UBUNTU, neither fedora nor debian or much less arch as an example are known., and here it is not a question of saying who is better, if we do not look for how to add publications that are worth reading, let Mr. Shuttleworth do with Ubuntu what he thinks best.
to do what you want with your distro, if you don't like it, because there are a lot of distro to choose from, you waste a lot of time writing this type of post when you should publish something that attracts more users to Linux than I think it does not even reach 4% in the world, why? For this type of publication, new users are looking for alternatives other than windows and what impression do they take with this market lawsuit? in the end they end up coming back without being able to clarify their doubts. I see a lot of fanaticism from one side to another and this does not contribute to the spread of free software with greater force. This is indirect advertising to Ubuntu whether we like it or not because they are always making news for better or for worse, and although it hurts when talking about Linux, the first thing people on the street tell you is UBUNTU, neither fedora nor debian or much less arch as an example are known., and here it is not a question of saying who is better, if we do not look for how to add publications that are worth reading, let Mr. Shuttleworth do with Ubuntu what he thinks best.
In that this type of discussion alienates or scares a little those who think about trying Linux you are absolutely right, at least in my case I planned to start with Ubuntu but seeing that they threw so much shit on it I decided on Mint ( Although it was not a bad decision, Mint is quite user-friendly in any case).
So you test according to whether it has the approval or not of the town?
You would miss trying many things then, because the people also complain about the difficulty of installing Arch or Gentoo; the people say that KDE is the best desktop; And also the people say that the best browser is Chrome ... and I can continue with other examples of things that the majority say and that, although I cannot say that it is the opposite, if I can assure that something popular is not always the best accommodates everyone, including you.
Do you want advice? Ask and listen, but do not read the opinions on matters of personal taste and take them as if they were the truth.
And I need to add: Test, test and test and make your own evaluation, following the odd advice.
That was when I was just getting started in Linux, when I got hold of the thread I tried many distros and from there my tastes started to emerge ... what I mean is that it is not pleasant to arrive with interest in a matter and the first thing you see is discussions for everywhere. Greetings.
Dear feline, the problem is not the discussions as long as they lead to a useful point, the problem is the "asshole" discussions (sorry) that do not lead anywhere, and that are the product of a total lack of objectivity, as is often seen lately in various blog's.
regards
The most stupid and simplistic view I have seen, on why Linux does not pass 2% on home desktop computers ... pffff
Of course, for things like this ..., then it won't be because of the lack of marketing, because of the lack of support from hardware companies, because of the lack of games (little by little it will be corrected a bit like in osx), because of the lack of good drivers to play by amd and intel, due to the lack of a good and universal audio driver, which does not cause problems like pulseaudio has given me depending on which computer, etc etc ...
No, it's to tell the truth on the blogs, SMELL your eggs.
That orlando
I see they deleted one of my comments, even though it did not contain any kind of insult. I didn't think they would sink that low.
I don't have the power to delete any comments, and I don't see any deleted comments from you, so I don't understand what that is about.
Ubuntu (that is, Canonical) is like the colleague of the soul who one day gives you the stick for his own interests, and you realize that he was not as friendly as he seemed.
You learned things with your friend and you had a great time, you will always be grateful to him, but you realized that in the end it was shit and it was not worth it.
What Ubuntu wants to do is use its position of power (being the most used Linux distro on the desktop) and impose its standards and solutions, which will also be handled by them, since they develop for their distro, without contributing to the upstream.
And what I hallucinate is that there are people who say they are lovers of free software that supports and defends them, that if freedom, that if they do a lot of good ... the other day I read a comment from someone who tried on a Dell computer with a pre-installed Ubuntu install another distro, and had a lot of problems, because apparently Dell had made patches or specific drivers only for ubuntu ... OLÉ!
To fix bug # 1 and fight Microsoft, they are becoming Microsoft along the way. Let them do what they want, but don't count on me.
exact, and I do not see the reason sincerely, once canonical said that the vision they wanted to follow was that of osx and not that of windows ..., well they go wrong then, because I do not see unity in which it can overcome osx, except in being heavy ahaahahahha.
Guys, guys, they only waste time in silly discussions, I clarify: I am not saying that the subject is not important…. (and the silly discussion goes, because no one will change their mind) in an intelligent discussion both parties reach a consensus, in which both have to negotiate to reach an agreement that benefits both. But this from the perspective that you look at it, is not going to bring anything good, they only get insulted, have a bad time, get angry ...
I would like to take the opportunity to ask the administrators for more respect for the ubuntu users who visit the blog. Visiting the blog and seeing how some administrators publish notes like these, or make negative comments towards ubunto is an unpleasant experience, Elav you are a very intelligent person, with a lot of knowledge about Linux (and surely in many other areas) a person to whom although I do not know admire. The simple fact of belonging to a great and noble country such as Cuba makes you special to me. Please do not fall for absurd provocations. Greetings with much affection from El Salvador.
hey how bad it was, if they deleted one of my comments ... the funny thing is that it didn't offend anyone, it just tried to point out how useless it is to argue in this way.
Now if my comments appear, Thank you
It happened that they were not approved, but it is very rare that in DLinux we delete a comment ... very rare.
Painful.
Linux should come together and not piss off each other, and I know why; envy.
I hope that one day this war of insults and misgivings will end.
I've seen a lot of silly comments around here, forgive me partners but that's the way it is.
Everyone is a matter of taste and needs, look at me I like linux, on this computer that belongs to my wife I have canaima and win vista, because it came that way from the factory and she does not like linux because she does not have the patience to take that path as I.
in my staff I have kubuntu that I updated yesterday and I like it, and they know that it was forgotten by canonica and even so they don't see me writing nonsense or idiocy, so I ask everyone for patience.
Now I maintain my canonical point is a PRIVATE company, and Ubuntu is a product, so as such they have the right to do what they want because what matters is the profit, not the community. End of story, what are ungrateful? And what did they expect? the priority is their goals, so let's turn our back on them and let them continue on their way.
That the paraphernalia is that they are the ones that introduce many to the world of linux, well in my opinion if many of us noticed the tetra, I don't think the new ones also realize it.
My solution would be to minimize the ubuntu news and not take it into account as much as possible, as well as increase the information and publicity of all the other distros. and whoever wants to use ubuntu, then if he wants to do so.
First you accept that this is about tastes and needs in regards to what everyone wants to offer as a linux product and whoever wants to consume it, and in the end you come out with the fact that you have to marginalize news of a product belonging to that great linux world. As it does not check what you say respect with the solution you propose.
In other words, diversity of thought is respected, but those who think in certain ways must be set aside.
Son, it's not that I want to mess with diversity of thought, it's against a company that uses and depresses at will. Or is it that all these events were not originated by their hand? I do not mean to judge everyone who wants to use Ubuntu - no, because everyone is free to do so, if not that we no longer follow Canonical's propaganda and its actions, because two things like that can happen, or They give account that it is not good to deny the origins as they are doing, or once and for all they separate completely from the world that is gnu / linux. (which I think is ultimately what they are going to do for their obvious movement).
Greetings Daniel, good morning
Well, the "propaganda" is made by only 2 parties: Canonical in favor (with their omgubuntu blog, for example), and the antiubuntu against (with articles like this). Outside of these two, it is very rare for Ubuntu users to do marketing work, they only do system articles as well as any user of any other distro.
The thing about freedom of thought was an analogy to what you put in your post, because, I repeat, on the one hand you are accepting that this is a matter of taste and you give the example of what happens with you and your partner, but on the other you propose how The solution is to relegate the news that a distribution has, just because there are fans who attack it and its users for the decisions made by a company that is given a higher power than it actually has.
Don't forget that the person who wrote the note is Uruguayan; that is, an idiosyncrasy of a country that lives in Argentina and Brazil and cries when the bottle is taken away.
You're wrong. The one who wrote this is Italian and lives in Spain.
wtf lol? xD I'm not Uruguayan ahahhahh
I apologize. Unfortunate comment of mine. Not because I don't think about it, but it's not the right place to do it. By place I don't mean the blog but the post itself.
Ubuntu is a hybrid distro (community + corporate) and it is common to see this type of friction. If the problem is MIR's, then get on the Launchpad, grab that source code and improve compatibility with KDE and other desktop environments (if you dare edit the source code and test it constantly, of course). This is what the people of Mint did when they saw that Ubuntu's package management system has been from Guatemala to Guatemala.
Debian has added the GDebi and the software-center (both, courtesy of Cannonical) and if in the near future MIR manages to be in the experimental / unstable repos, then the tantrums of the fanboys / haters that are in this distro will shut up and They will agree with Cannonical as if nothing had happened (there are people who like the Unity GUI and I do not complain, because it is just as eye-candy as the Aqua in OS X and the Aero in Windows Vista / 7, but still I respect them and do not try to act as if I were an evangelical con man as it is intended to do in this flame).
Now, the joke is this: What if MIR was a proprietary graphics server? Would tantrums now make sense?
Everyone complains about Ubuntu for these nonsense that for the way in which it manages its packages and the hierarchy of users thanks to the abuse of the "sudo" command (which I disagree on, since it does not make the user who comes Windows actually realizes that your system may be unprotected).
Also, the Launchpad always works when Debian Stable does not put the updated Chromium in its backports when it is in update 4 of its Stable branch and anything else that gives us laziness or we want to ubunctize our Debian to stratospheric levels.
With these users, anyone is going to use Crunchbang, CentOS and / or slackware.
The work to make all the environments compatible with the new generation of graphics servers has already been done, there was a long talk and it has been several years until Wayland was finished. Canonical who has imposed without counting on anyone ?.
There is a big difference in contributing / modifying something in a certain software to make it more complete or solve any problem that you may have and have little less to do everything again for something that is done in bad faith and with a view to exclusivity and control. .
The only way that we will see Mir in a distro like Debian is that, unfortunately for all, it becomes imposed and there is no choice but to deal with it and even then, it would be unlikely and even in the hypothetical case that something like this comes to fruition. When it happens, the comments about Mir are not made with all the reason in the world, regardless of the distribution that implements it, it is not about fanaticism or injured egos, but about having two fingers in the forefront and seeing things with perspective.
If the article talked about the way packages and hierarchy are managed
of users, you would have read comments about it, but since it is not about that but about a graphical server, talking about other OSs or other unrelated topics is irrelevant and would be to divert attention from the central topic of the article.
Launchpad (I suppose that the PPAs) are not maintained by Canonical, but by people from the community, there Canonical the only merit it has is to provide a warehouse, nothing more, the rest of the work is purely community.
Does it really make any sense to give up because others don't think or see things the same? Or does it turn out that having your own criteria instead of following the pack without question is going to be the right thing to do?
As they say around here, when you sow winds, what you reap are storms. Neither is it because of them, nor because of jealousy, nor because of any of those victimizing excuses that have been named, it is simply that Canonical is reaping what it has sown.
Question: Why would the wheel have to be reinvented twice because of a whim of Canonical that has imposed without counting on anyone?
Answer: because it is a private company with its own interests and established goals that differ from the interests and goals of a community)
The same can be said for Red Hat and Novell, companies that in most cases focus on the business sector and offer a much friendlier console than Ubuntu.
Anyway, there are more than 300 GNU / Linux distros and staying to criticize a particular distro is not the solution. If I prefer a premium service, then I subscribe to Red Hat Network, pay for my subscription which is much cheaper than a Windows Server 2012 license and I can access their official repo, knowing that I can take into account a company that really is look at your users and their contribution (If you are an anti-corporate, then you use Debian, Slackware, CentOS and other distros).
One thing should be noted and that is that, except for a few cases, I would put my hand on fire because Ubuntu (distribution) is not being criticized, but rather the company behind it and its policies.
The "Linux for Human Beings", getting closer to users, making a popular distro, getting to know and spreading GNU / Linux…. and ultimately the general idea from which Ubuntu started are NOT the problem. The problem is that the company behind it "sells" that but what it then offers is the opposite.
Basically they are spoiling a project with a lot of potential, such as Ubuntu is (or was) out of sheer whim and commercial interest. It is normal for tempers to flare when they try to "destroy" something good.
Well, I think you need to pay more attention to the articles in various blogs, because whenever Ubuntu is talked about (because a new version comes out, because they announce some change, etc) the host of antiubuntu (not anti-canonical) people come out to rant with everything against Ubuntu, Unity and the users of this distro.
DanielC, I think they are paying too much attention and giving too much importance to fans and trolls, you should pay attention to the whole group and people with two fingers of a forehead, not just a couple of idiots, who unfortunately, there are everywhere.
Nor is it that so much victimhood comes to mind.
All right, so let them develop software that meets their interests and goals outside of the community instead of tripping them and requiring them to dance to their son whenever they feel like it.
Now, as long as they take full advantage of the work of others, the least they can do is have a modicum of consideration and not try to control and impose their will in the way they are doing.
I'm afraid that giving KDE support for Mir is not something that is in the hands of a handful of Linuxeros, there are many things that prevent this support, I recommend you if you have not read these post by Martin Gräßlin, the main KDE developer:
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/05/mir-in-kubuntu/
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/03/reply-to-all-the-faces-of-ubuntu/
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/03/war-is-peace/
Blablablablabla… as an ubuntu user I'm sick of reading the tantrums of other distros users complaining about ubuntu. If some day drivers are missing, it will be because your wonderful community does not work or does it in the wrong sense ... I say your community because I do not belong, I pass from you like canonical, I find all the noise that you make because canonical not it does your work… .this is free software… not what you say it is.
But what bullshit are you saying? If less than 10% of Ubuntu is made by Canonical, the rest is software taken directly from the community, drivers included.
Okay, they want to get away from GNU and Linux to build "something else" on their own, but they are still quite a long way from achieving it, so both they and you commit a sovereign stupidity by despising the community that is the one that does almost all work. It is little less than spitting up or pissing against the wind, it will end up splashing them.
Is it really necessary so much ego and fanaticism just to defend a company that has shown many times that it does not care about you?
Comment of person who would prefer to see using windows, before leaving linux so bad, saying so many nonsense in less than 10 lines, what a shame the truth ..., I hope that he is simply trolling to annoy.
90% Ubuntu: Debian developers, Mozilla Foundation, * buntu developers (kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu) and Ubuntu users who want to improve the distro.
10% Ubuntu: Mark Shuttleworth, Cannonical and partners.
"If someday drivers are missing, it will be because your wonderful community does not work or works in the wrong sense" what kind of nonsense is that?
Do not write the first thing that comes to mind, think more.
I shall play you the GNU / song of my people http://k42.kn3.net/taringa/9/9/6/1/7/6//pampelito/1F2.jpg
These Romans are crazy ... This reminds me of The Life of Brian from the Monty Python ...
»
-Are you from the Popular Jewish Front?
- Fuck you! Popular Judaic Front? We are from the Popular Front of Judea! Popular Jewish Front…? Dissidents!
- The only ones we hate even more than the Roman people are the bastards from the Front of the Jewish People, dissidents!
- and the Popular Front of the Jewish People, all dissidents!
- and the Popular Front of Judea, dissidents!
- What?
- The Popular Front of Judea, dissidents!
- The Popular Front of Judea is us ...
- eeeh, this, I thought we were from the Popular Union
- from the Popular Front
- What happened to the Popular Union, Rex?
- there it is (points to one who is sitting alone and away)
- DISSIDENT!
"
Put Ubuntu, Arch, Win $, etc instead of the faction names and ...
Let's see if we all stop being such assholes.
Greetings.
jajjaajajajajaj I did not remember that movie, but it is true that it comes to the hair of this xd
ROMANI ITE DOMUN!
HAHAHA. You're right!
How many comments does this post have? ... better and worse advertising for ubuntu I think there can be no
Well, because everyone is obsessed with "freedom", for God's sake stop talking nonsense, Canonical is doing what it takes to make THEIR product a success, it is striving to bring Ubuntu to PCs, tablets and phones. Try to bring LINUX to the outside world. If they created MIR, it is because Xor no longer met their expectations and they had to do something to change that, if at some point the other distributions run out of drivers, it is because said distribution has not done what is necessary for other companies to see it.
Stop nonsense like these, I think it's clear that Canonical does not seek to compete against distributions, if not against other operating systems. And if that means more software, more competitiveness, and more support, for me, let them do what they want.
I want to see ubuntu pre-installed on computers, tablets, and phones.
Finally a little common sense. I liked your comment.
Look, I don't defend anyone. But my view is that perhaps Canonical is aiming for better development, it just isn't focused on the "collateral damage" that its decisions might cause. Even so, I believe that estrous can bring innovation. Changes hurt, yes, but no one knows the future. I certainly see that Canonical looks only to the future, and many users look to the present.
Nor is it to burn with anger, simply in the future, see where the wind blows and make our best decision (go where it suits us).
I'll wait for time to show me Meanwhile, I continue with Debian. And I know that what I have just written to some will tingle their ears.
Good for starters and as a Fedora user to death; Compiz; Xfce; Fluxbox and Debian. I have to say that if Canonical were HR at the time that HR started, it would be bankrupt or it was an Apple-style company but shoddy. Taking the best of OpenSource and FreeWare to sell it as their own, because that is what Ubuntu is, it is nothing more than a lot of packages adapted from Debian and RH also from SUSE for their purposes. They do not develop the bases or the fundamentals but they put paint on it and some ornaments that in the end are not so essential to make a difference. In other words Canonical with their distro what are some cheeky leechers who do is polish what was already done. From the beginning a few Apple imitators. All that charade of his philosophy of SL was more than part of the marketing that if that distro that is what they have always offered excellent marketing.
you could see that coming ..
Haha, what a good post, and what an impact it had.
I really don't know what the problem is. I mean, I saw Ubuntu born, and never take it as a project that interests you in free software. I never saw a canonical endorsement of this one, I always focus on the commercial. If I present ease before other distros it is because of their orientation, I mean the trade. In the first years of development the contribution to the community was almost nil, they only took the work of others, polished, coupled and applied it to the distro. To this day I do not consider that there is something Ubuntu does and Debian cannot. It is only a package focused on «Next, next Etc» and it seems great to me, it is an alternative to people who do not want to break their heads.
Honestly, if canonical wants to divide or separate from this world it seems to me the best. Since I would give an example that a profitable product can be generated from GNU / Linux. There are many distros that will continue to be. Let's think that thanks to Ubuntu we now have Mint, which I consider the best "Next, Next" style distros.
In a personal way. I have been testing Linux for a long time, and the truth is I see a backwardness in certain things, that my dream was that by the decade they were going to make it a reality, but no. This topic is an example. Without going any further at this moment I have a laptop with an Intel HD graphics and it is disgusting to connect a TV via HDMI, problems with resolution, audio, and in theory we are talking about a free driver generated by Intel.
I think that for these issues Canonical grabs the bull by the horns, and I see it as a gem. I will continue denying debian, because I like it, but undoubtedly Ubuntu will add other users who do not like to break their skulls hehe.
Ha talking about freedom. They deleted my post