I am not much of doing articles of opinion Well, I prefer to do more technical posts, however I want to share in this post a 'position' or opinion that I've always had.
We are always debating (with other OS users or among ourselves) that if Linux users are only 1% (clearly wrong), that if our market share is low (true)… and this is where I enter the debate: «we need linux to have millions more users«
I am not against massifying the use of Free Software, quite the contrary, but my problem (and question) is the following: «Do we really need 1.000.000 users who contribute practically nothing?»I have always thought that 10 that are useful are better than 1000 that are not, that is, what is the use of having 1.000.000 new users if they are the type of users who do not read manuals, demand that they help them but They do not help themselves (reading, searching, documenting, testing), and are they also users who do not care about collaborating or helping the community?
If that is the situation, I prefer only that we have 100 new users on Linux, if these 10 new users will be the ones who report bugs, of which before asking first they read the man, search in Google, try and experiment trying to give them themselves with the solution to their problem, and in case they cannot solve it themselves, when they ask for help they ask for it, they do not demand it ... and also ... they share error logs or something similar to provide us who are trying to help, facilitate the job.
It's just what I said in the title of the post, at least I gentlemen ... at least I prefer Quality over Quantity, I prefer few useful than many ... not useful.
This is referring only and exclusively to the behavior of users, the usefulness that each user may or may not have with the global community, because if we enter the subject of manufacturers, support, drivers is a completely different story.
It is not a secret that the more users Linux has then, logically, the better support AMD and Nvidia should give us with their drivers for our OS, and ... I repeat, debería! Having a high% of the market (or at least not a minutia) can have benefits, we are seeing them in the news these days with everything related to games for SteamDo you think that if we were only 1000 nerds or sysadmins who used Linux those of Steam would have thought of us?
As you can see, everything has its pros and cons. On the one hand, if we have a lot of users who use Linux, so far I have been able to see that most of those users demand help, have terrible manners, are really lazy and do not want to 'dirty' their hands with a terminal, while a minor % are those who care about collaborating, trying to solve their problem, try, experiment, want to learn. While on the other hand, is it really necessary to have a large% in the market for manufacturers to notice us?
Quantity or Quality…. That is the question! … what do you think?
I think that not everyone is interested in computing to read a man, they just want something that makes a document, or a spreadsheet, for the rest to call a technician. It will always be like this.
Unfortunately, many technicians in the country where I live (Peru) are not interested in solving problems with GNU / Linux, since "there is not much demand".
The truth is that GNU / Linux is quite great, but in itself I would have liked that at least there was a real interest in the use of GNU / Linux by Peruvian linuxers.
I am quite interested in computer science (I study ing in inf), I have done tutorials that are no longer useful, I have also developed free programs that nobody has used and they no longer work, I have helped people in a forum who in the end do not know you know if it has been useful, but today it no longer seems like a good investment of time and sight ... (except for the curriculum vitae), I have also used distros (gentoo, arch) and I have learned a lot, but once you have learned (that was what I was interested in), and now by valuing my time and sight more, I don't want to continue wasting time and effort on that I prefer everything ready without complications and concentrate on other things. I don't know, I'm not so interested in linux anymore ... although I like the putery it causes.
It's not that I'm not so interested, it's that it's not worth wasting our time on some things.
Well, it is not that there is "much" quality with which we have either ehh .., I do not see any difference between our community, or that of apple or those of microsoft-eros xD
Well, don't even tell me. With what I come across on FayerWayer, it's more than enough for anyone who's going to comment there to get fired up by the horde of mediocre commenters out there.
Chw is much worse, between the amount of fanboys of windows and amd .., and in genbeta more of the same, but there are mixed linuxeros and windowseros xD.
Well let me tell you that, thanks to the negligent use of Disqus, there are users who really pity the way they comment >> http://imgur.com/a/qRlWm
Hehe, what a laugh with that guy.
@cookie:
Well, that guy looks like a UNIX fanboy. And by the way, after a good fight in the chicken coop, here is one good answer.
Completely agree with you. What's more, it is quite common to find people who believe in the divine ointment and who really start trolling as if it were the most normal thing in the world. An example of this is this FayerWayer post about NSA espionage, which there are a couple of users who are real despots (sorry for Bitly, but I use it for convenience and because it is embarrassing to put the full link).
Sorry about the link, but it went wrong. Here it is link.
I am not a programmer. I am not a computer technician. I read the manuals when necessary. I love to "fiddle" with programs to suit my needs. For the latter and for its stability is that I like Linux. But I don't think I'm a user who can contribute something to the community because I don't read logs or bugs or those things. I do read almost all the Linux blogs in English and Spanish because I think that by reading you learn. But so far I have not contributed anything.
Well, many times aspects such as the visual interface and / or visual identity of an application are contributed (for example, Mozilla Firefox with the experimental Australis interface).
The truth is that there are many programs that are great, but what is crying out is a user interface designer to make the program more graphically practical.
And is it easy to learn that?
In many cases, sending suggestions is enough. It is not mandatory that you have to learn C ++ and / or be a beta-tester.
Something just occurred to me… Starting from that, helping something so big from granite to granite seems insignificant, perhaps here I agree with KZKG, in the fact that few collaborate in relation to what they demand. I imagine that was meant to imply. I'll see how I help a little.
Regards…
PS: It almost blew my mind when reading C ++ XD ...
The aim of the GNU / Linux project is to offer an OS that respects user freedoms.
We can already check this and give it as something done.
Some distros, as separate projects, are not interested in the least to have more users, others instead, have among their objectives to achieve the largest possible user quota (GNU is not mutually exclusive with these objectives), either for money or pure self-love.
The latter and the most fanboys of them are the ones that promote those ideas, based mainly on the rush they have to make it happen.
They forget that community projects (for one reason or another) will progress slower than private ones.
Thus, it is not a question of a higher quota for these SOs, what is sought is a greater interest of the people for their freedom.
The problem is that there is a vicious circle that does not allow that interest, it is like being overweight in some countries.
There are sporty and healthy people who complain about the few active people, about the few healthy food options in stores.
But the problem is that people do not care about their health, and they buy what does not benefit them, thus generating a greater offer of those products, greater misinformation about the advantages of a healthy life and other things, which in the end generate more people with overweight.
"Is it really necessary to have a large% in the market for manufacturers to notice us?"
Yes, the greater the demand, the greater the supply.
+1
The people at Steam (Valve) haven't really thought about us. They have made their own OS using GNU / Linux and will release their consoles with this system, so obviously they need their games to run on Linux.
Uff but there is every advanced user who is more troll XD
The previous comment was not for you, it was in general, and the Steam thing is true, obviously they did not do it for linux users (it would not make sense economically)
This is where I think Ubuntu does a good job of isolating itself from the community. For everything else we have the other distros.
LoL leave the useragent switcher on
The demand moves the markets, and with it the need for information and progress. As an example, if only Windows were used in a city ... what OS would the technicians study? Exact. Quality is not necessarily going to be present in all actors, but when there is demand it will not take long to appear.
For me, it is better that Linux becomes more popular simply because of the reality that it will incentivize manufacturers and developers and more neat and accessible distros will come out. It is silly to propose that we continue in this situation just because you have mastered it, you are happy and you do not like "windows type" users. Not all users have the time or the hobby to set up a distribution…. but if they have the same right to use Linux. On the other hand, the GNU philosophy I am convinced would build a better, more equal world.
That is why we prefer 10 C programmers to 1 million users of * buntu, but in the end it would be good to reach people who know at least that there is a world behind the window.
For the most common users who bought the computer with the Windoor pre-installed and believe that there is nothing else, it is natural that the world looks like this and always be like that, everyone uses it and I want what everyone has, you install a debian with all the drivers and the system is perfect but they don't want that, they want to play CoD, Battlefield, etc and install it like "everyone" does.
The case of technicians, programming students or related careers is the most pathetic of all, because they would not only have practical advantages such as the available documentation, but also the source code and all the programming languages that every gnu / linux distribution offers.
Free Software and Education - Richard Stallman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRvorE9PJso
kaze, a tip you can not be more daddy than the pope, therefore not everyone who uses linux can be perfect, I hope everything was as you say you want, but it is not, so be patient.
I think that you have and are not right in what you propose, let me explain; It is true that the attitude (or rather, the bad attitude) of a part of the users, makes us prefer quality over quantity, since those who do not contribute, do not read or investigate and also demand in bad ways that they solve their problems, they become a nuisance and end up denigrating the rest of the GNU / Linux users. Based on that factor, it is easy to say that a few quality users are better than millions of users with no knowledge or intent to acquire it.
Now, as I always say, remember that the vast majority of people who use a computer (and here I include any similar device such as smartphones, tablets, etc.), only consider it one more tool in their daily life, just like a microwave oven or a car, that is, all they care about is that they work and do what they are supposed to do, thus forgetting to "learn", "cooperate", etc., so it is better to adapt to that situation without making us bad blood. On the other hand, it is this mass of users (majority) that stimulates the development of the "usability" of systems, equipment, etc., since manufacturers are forced to polish user interfaces, make them more intuitive, simplify steps, etc., thereby indirectly contributing to the development of the SL. If anyone doubts it, look at the development of Firefox and Android, with significant market shares gained, achieved from precisely those millions of supposedly "useless" users.
There is a rather old proverb that we can apply to this situation, which says: "If it does not serve much, at least it serves as a bad example"
Very good article, KZKG ^ Gaara.
Personally, I agree completely with Charlie-Brown.
I agree that the vast majority of users do not care the least bit about how their software works. There are many people who, for example, would not distinguish an Android from a Firefox OS if they both had WhatsApp. For them it would just be more or less pretty. Is that bad? It depends.
On the one hand, under the free software development model in which the reporting of bugs by users, as well as their ability to detect them, is a very valuable source to improve said software, yes. However, let's put this in perspective: when your refrigerator breaks down, how many people decide to learn about its operation and try to fix it on their own? The expert is called and he fixes it for us. End of story. It is sad but in all aspects of our life we work like this and software is one more. Free software tries to change that mentality, but not everyone is determined to accept it.
On the other hand, we have the example of many "user-friendly" distros whose objective is nothing more than to bring GNU / Linux closer to less experienced people, or who simply do not want to learn how all this works and simply want an OS for them. allow you to connect to Facebook, open office documents and surf the internet. Distros like * buntu, LinuxMint, Manjaro, etc. they seek to offer that, and their developers seek the largest number of users in addition to the most common use of GNU / Linux.
At least in my experience, installing Xubuntu to family and friends has helped me teach them how an old computer can come back to life and make them feel good about working with the PC. Do you need terminal cheats? No. And in case you need them, I am happy to help you and explain what I am doing. Which improves my quality as a downstream user.
Anyway, as always, I think we all agree that freedom requires a responsibility that not everyone is willing to assume. And so it happens in many aspects of life.
A greeting!
Very, very agree with both you and Charlie. The words practically got out of my mouth.
I've been using GNU / Linux and BSD for 4 years, going through ubuntu, opensuse, fedora, FreeBSD and staying with Kubuntu in the end, I have never contributed anything to the community, I am useless Thank you ...
There are many ways to contribute, such as submitting suggestions to improve this or that. Anyway.
I completely agree with you KZKG ^ Gaara, I prefer a "small" community, although it is not small, than a large number of users who not only do not contribute anything (which I can understand if they do not have knowledge), but also demand be served without reading or looking for anything before, and above with demands.
Greetings.
Partner, you can't pretend that everyone is like you, or that everyone who uses Linux has advanced knowledge, and I can give you a couple of reasons:
1- The fact that GNU / Linux pleases us, encourages us to learn and acquire more knowledge, is something that you and I value, but the rest do not have to. As Charlie Brown said in his comment, for many a computer is nothing more than a tool that just has to work and that's it.
2- You cannot pretend that everyone likes what you like. You see it as that what you like is the best, but you are wrong. It all depends on the point of view of each one. Would you like a Community of Salsa singers to criticize you or say that you are not a "quality" person because you don't listen to their music? Is the same.
The point is, if we expect to have only "Quality" users, the manufacturers won't give a shit about that. What they want is "Quantity" so they can sell more.
You can't be more successful, @elav. The truth is, manufacturers like to load up on Benjamin Franklin's green stamps for selling more.
And although many do not like GNU / Linux, it is for reasons that many of us do not know. The truth is that the world of free software is quite great that you are filled with people who really have different tastes, and even so, with much more open than those who use other OS's like OSX and / or Windows.
And by the way, here I present to you a really impressive case that the use of pedantry of an anonymous commenter who hides behind the anonymity of the Internet >>
Here is. Sorry if the "screenshot album" didn't come out, but that's the most recent case I found.
I already left my comment to the nerd that calls himself Win .. http://i.imgur.com/lpT6NKj.png
explode, epic HAHAHAAJ
Unfortunately, it was erased in a sanitamen. Apparently the FayerWayer admins who manage Disqus comments like the talk.
Similarly, using another alias I have in Disqus, I gave an answer showing that he is a complete animal when reading an ironic comment. Anyway, it gives me the impression that Laura Bozzo is hiding behind anonymity to spread plague anywhere.
Well, the comment was in moderation, maybe they have not approved it ..
With garlic and onions they erase it immediately.
That is not why, Eliot, because I have also commented there (I throw a lot at Apple, and it is well known how fan boys they are in FW, both the admins and several users), and they have not deleted my comments.
I believe, and I emphasize I BELIEVE, that it was because of using the word "fucking" that that comment was withheld for moderation ... although as Disqus is, I wouldn't be surprised if it was because of using the word "Taliban" xD
Oh the virgin .. really, the fucking that hahaha left me ..
Well, what @DanielC refers to is the way in which one expresses that response with Management by Perkele.. I can imagine @Tina Toledo with a good sermon that makes us see reason.
And by the way, the final lunge.
Instead of salsa you would have put reggaeton to make the flame come together: p Really, the truth is that I very much agree with what you say +1.
Regarding the article, I think that quality and quantity are not concepts that are fought over, in fact, because of the way free software is developed, I think that quantity implies quality (at least probabilistically speaking). Regards.
Oops! correcting ...
echo: = done and issue fixed 😛
Quality before Quantity? Do you want all linux users to be sysadmin? Well, perfect but start by eliminating all the graphic mode from your computer.
I agree 100%. You have hit exactly on a point that I have been clear for a long time. I don't care if GNU / Linux has many users as long as it is still there for us who appreciate it to use it. I prefer a thousand times to share an operating system with users who have enough brain to know what they are using or who are curious and eager to learn it. I don't want users who when you tell them the first technical word they look at you as if you had gotten off a flying saucer.
I think that sometimes you really forget that you professional users, those with knowledge .. etc .. etc .. etc .. are the majority ..
Big mistake !!
I gave my father my old netbook with a fedora .. I use it to watch videos and do things that interest him and now .. he is not someone from the IT sector (even though when he was young ... he tells me he was one of those who armed Computaodras with those files or something like that hahah xD)
I am curious and I give it part of my time, and I have even learned a lot, .. but I am not yet a user that we say with enough knowledge to support me in all this .. the truth is, we depend a lot on what those who are charitable teach us ..
now over there I read .. the purpose of the gnu / linux project is a functional and free operating system ..
and that world is part of the utopian world ..
But not everyone will know and even so it is not their duty to know either .. it is the duty of those who know how to teach them what we can.
Even so, people are needed to "make a ball", the more we are, the more companies will support some applications such as the drivers that we need so much, but we have distros that are in charge of bringing the masses to GNU and that is ubuntu, I use fedora but of facing an end user ubuntu wins by a lot
That is the main idea that more come.
Hello! KZKG ^ Gaara I partially agree with you, I have to admit that today the Gnu / Linux communities are very friendly and help the novice user in a fair and precise way, which is not the case in apple and microsoft, on several occasions I see as they confuse the user more instead of helping everything because they comment without foundations. But where I do not agree with you is at the point of mentioning certain users as not useful, Gnu / Linux is free and with the idea that everyone can use it that is why many distributions always seek to do their tasks every time easier and more intuitive, you must be tolerant since perhaps users without computer knowledge will come, people like our brothers, mothers, fathers whom we bring to this area but they do not know many of the points and that is not why they are useless users, come on! as simple as if I like video games but that is not why I should be a developer. Respect my friend.
I have been a Linux user for more than 7 or maybe 8 years, I am not a programmer, designer or sysadmin, I only use Linux because I wanted to forget about the virus problems I had, and the truth is that I have not seen how it can be done either. collaborate with the community when people who know how to program or have more advanced technical knowledge, do not even take into consideration what you can contribute, making you "worth giving an idea" or suggesting something because someone else is going to tell you that you're wrong. In the forums they label you "new" "new" etc, for not having that technical knowledge at the same level, after 8 years I am no longer new, but I have not dedicated myself to "gutting" the system.
A clear example, I am new to Manjaro and in G + I reported / asked if someone had had a problem installing the KDE version because when I installed it, despite having downloaded the KDE iso from having verified the sha1sum etc (I insist I am no longer again, I know what I have to do), at the time of rebooting the system was not KDE; XFCE was installed !!!!! For me that is a bug, however no one paid attention to my comment, I did not receive any response, making me not want to report anything the next time.
I think we should put that arrogance and fanaticism aside and go back to those times when it was very nice to enter IRC channels, where you entered for a consultation and ended up making friends.
Excuse me for not contributing in linux, I thought that just using linux is more than enough
It is my opinion, very particular I must point out, that because of this type of attitudes in which the common user is despised, the one who, like me, comes to Linux looking for alternatives but without being a scholar on the subject, is that we are distanced from the community by fear of feeling "foolish."
The goal of linux systems should not be to form a nucleus of highly trained and brainy users, rather it should be to reach the most "dumb" of us.
The truth is I DO NOT agree, we cannot leave other users in their world of ignorance just because they are not going to contribute something "useful".
If I have always liked something about Linux, it is that it works! it does what it has to do without "formatting" or buying "basic applications", for me it is not a question of "taste" in terms of which platform to use, but rather which operating system is the best to do things right. It does not matter if only a few of us are going to use Linux if when we go to another company or to the same supermarket we find that their systems crashed because they used that microsoft garbage, that sooner or later affects us all in one way or another.
It is not that just a few of us enjoy what Linux can do, but that ALL of us benefit from something that actually works. So the more quantity the better.
You're kidding, aren't you?
What is a GNU Linux OS made for, so that everyone can benefit from better technology and a better experience with their hardware, or so that a few "report bugs" and "collaborate"?
It's not that Linux needs "users" whatever that is, it needs humanity to use it. And yes, this includes people who do not have software NPI or to use a console nor do they need to, I repeat, NEITHER DOES IT.
Who will decide who "can be a linux user"? You KZKG ^ Gaara? And to those who cannot, what? Will you sew a yellow star on their chest or sleeve?
I proselytize with Linux and nag to friends, acquaintances and strangers about how good it is to be able to enjoy, yes, enjoy SL. And then I go and help them install a distro and also try to help them with their doubts. Years ago others did it with me.
And now you come to tell me to put a yellow star on the chest of those who have bad manners or those who do not know or who do not want to learn or do not want to be more than mere users of Linux PCs?
Are they not entitled to anything other than Micro $ oft or Apple…?
Let's see if we think things over before writing them, because sometimes there is a risk of leaving a fascist stink that pulls back.
I do not know but I see it differently, the adoption of the Gnu / linux duo is increasing in an immense number of devices, pigeonhole in desktop and laptop adoption is complex, there are games, but the monopoly, the propaganda and fanaticism.
Why do many want PC users (whatever OS) want me to have certain technical skills?
There are users who, for whatever reason it is just as valid (or it is not their thing or they do not care), do not have the ability to use a PC other than to navigate, create / edit documents, or make use of software that they occupy in their trade. And if they have bugs, with the anger that that represents, still take time to report the bug instead of the OS having a collector of the same to make the report automatically.
Although many do not like it, computing is less essential in life than eating. I can imagine a chef saying that we need more innovative chefs who contribute by making new recipes and not just diners who only order their dishes in a certain way.
I agree that quality is preferable to quantity, and that we don't exactly need billions of users using GNU / Linux. But I disagree "half" in the way of considering users who do not contribute anything as "non-useful users".
I do not think that the world of free software should be a competition to contribute as much and as well as possible, and mark the rest as "non-useful." There may be people who simply use GNU / Linux for their own business and take advantage of the kindnesses that this world offers. And not necessarily those people who limit themselves to simply using it have to be the typical heavy or "noobs" who demand help in bad ways and who do not bother to read manuals, test, experiment and learn on their own. Not all the people who do not contribute anything are "users who are left over" or who "annoy". I love free music, and not because I'm not a musician and not making or sharing my own music am I a "non-useful user" in the world of free music, for example.
In my opinion, one of the main reasons why free software (in addition to other good and ethical causes) should not be in the majority is the possibility that it loses its ethical part and its quality. When something good "becomes popular" or becomes something "for all audiences" that often happens a lot. A clear example we have with the internet itself, which with the fashion of asocial networks is becoming a massive network of gossip and personal rolls that do not contribute anything and that have lost privacy, when years ago it focused more on useful information and content. There are also many people who praise Android for being something supposedly "free" even though most of what is done for it is proprietary and even commercial. I would not like something similar to happen with the GNU / Linux world in general in a few years.
And for that reason is that I am in Diaspora *, because when Facebook became overcrowded, the ENTIRE social order (imagine) has been disordered that I find comments really unbearable.
Umm, no, I completely disagree. Those who "worry about collaborating, trying to solve their problem, try, experiment, want to learn" does not mean that they implicitly have manners or are not lazy, or want to get dirty, or so many things you mention. There are good and bad people among the "novices" and "advanced." Just one example that you know is enough: A forum of people trained in debian that bans an entire country (a lack of respect), only because of prejudices, and laziness of not wanting to moderate. They want quality and not quantity, but that led them to be prejudiced and discriminate. I think that these things must be improved in advanced users, since nobody is born knowing, by asking questions, you learn, and we are all very different. Cheers
An interesting and complex subject.
Assuming that an operating system, whatever it may be, is intended to be used, it is not logical to think of a small number of users, whether they collaborate or not.
Collaboration and knowledge are voluntary issues, another issue is the demands, that, by neither party.
We do a job and nobody forces us, it is true that sometimes we are required, as if we were forced to solve all kinds of problems.
In principle, I do not like the concept of a small number of users, it conveys the feeling that GNU / Linux is complex, an unfavorable topic, a wrong idea that we try to deny.
Greetings.
Very interesting, I still think that one thing does not go with the other ... from a certain point of view, when one asks for a solution, receives it but then transmits it (and you will say but not always), I ask, is the only communication channel a post? or the internet to be more generic ?. There is also not the air or rather the "word of mouth", how much does this improve the community? I think a lot. We must improve the education of users (that is not discussed) I would say that the education of the entire population, but there is something that cannot be removed from the focus and that is that the SOL are the real option for change before the SOP to amoral and antithetical behavior. The open / free operating systems that are based on the Linux kernel (because I believe that no one has developed another kernel) deposit their matrix in solidarity and freedom; Human values are not rubbed off in the face of others, they are not medals or trophies, instead they are entelechies, aspects of life that fill us, they complement us, that is why we are more than simple atomic assemblies that can be analyzed engineeringly.
As Fito Paez would say:
"It is to give
and not look at her
and his way of acting ».
(the reflection made me long hahahahaha)
SOL: Free Operating Systems
SOP: Proprietary Operating Systems
Yes, the lack of information and education is the big problem.
You are the typical example of why people do not want this system, the user is not judged or obliged to contribute anything.
It also shows that you are one of those people who believe themselves superior for mastering something that no one else gives a damn about.
By the way, your site is badly done because I use Opera and it identifies it as Chrome:
"Mozilla / 5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit / 537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome / 29.0.1547.76 Safari / 537.36 OPR / 16.0.1196.80"
You must take the final part, programmers like you cannot talk about quality.
Wow, how ugly to arrive offending without even saying hello. So the site is badly made because you use Opera and it identifies you as Chrome?
1- What makes you think that this site has the ability to modify your User Agent?
2- Did you know that Opera now uses Chromium / Chrome as a base? Well, seeing your comment I don't think you know.
3- The plugin that shows the browser you use was not created by us.
But also, what User Agent is that you put in the comment? You would go crazy to any site, because you have 3 browsers in it: Chrome, Safari and finally OPR. WTF
Ignore it, sometimes it contributes and other times it doesn't matter ... I think these characteristics are not exclusive.
The User Agent is fine. What happens is that the plugin does not recognize that User Agent like Opera, but like Chrome.
On other pages like HTML5 quiz they recognize it as such.
Thanks Hector! You are the typical example of the aggressive ignorant. It comes from pearls to quote on the net.
Fantastic answer Elav!
Typical of Hector ¬¬…
That is completely true. On html5tests.com, Opera 16 identifies it as normal. The problem is the plug, that's completely true. On html5tests.com, Opera 16 identifies it as normal. The problem is the plug, that's completely true. On html5tests.com, Opera 16 identifies it as normal. The problem is the plug, that's completely true. On html5tests.com, Opera 16 identifies it as normal. The problem is the plugin.
Hahaha WTF Eliot?
@Cookie:
That happens to me when I comment from Opera Mobile.
Back to the point, in HTML5Test.com identifies Opera 16 as such. The problem is in the browser's detection settings based on the User Agent.
It was not necessary to check all that, just look at his dump of user agent.
Well, the Chromium / Chrome is almost the same as the Opera 16, only the part of OPR […]. Nothing special.
«We need to teach people to refuse to install non-free plug-ins; we need to teach people to care more about their long-term interest of freedom than their immediate desire to view a particular site. » And that is the task, not only to install linux to those who use windows, but to teach them (and even experts linux since many seem to not know it yet) that what is at stake is not the "nice" and stable system operational, but freedom.
Simply the more the merrier. It doesn't matter if they contribute something to the community or not, do you think that the majority of Windows users contribute something to the community? …. and yet it is the most widely used system that has the most support from developers.
I can use the system for whatever I want: work, games… ..and voila, I don't necessarily have any obligation to contribute anything, now, if we all contribute something, then logically better.
The more mass of people who use Linux, the better for the system because companies, for example valve and its steam, will pay more attention to it.
By the way, let's see if we change the current comment system because it is PENOUS. They should show everything on a single page as they do in muylinux to facilitate navigation or use pagination as in search engines. The current system is a pain in the ass when there are a lot of comments.
I agree in part with the blog entry, in the part that I disagree is that if we are more users, although many are not useful (among which I think I am, although I try to solve the problems myself) those users they will make more noise and more developers will be "forced" to some extent to port their applications to linux
It seems to me that it is a somewhat sensitive issue ... Who then determines that a user is "of quality"? I think it is very positive that many are free software users. I think the more users there are, the better the community, maybe not all of them are actively contributing. But the more users there are, the more needs there will be. And therefore we can hope that little by little more will join in providing these solutions.
It is true that those who hope to have everything served on a platter are of little use, and that many times one sins as "elitist" for being a user of something that not many know.
But it seems to me that just as one has the freedom to use it, to have doubts and to ask. Others have the freedom not to, to answer no questions.
Unlike the author, I do consider that more is better. At least as far as Free Software is concerned.
A hug!
Very good article.
The operating system is the means, not the end. A normal user only needs to be productive, and for that to choose the options that make it more effective, and this includes from which brand of shoes suits him best to which OS he uses on the pc.
I think it is wrong to believe that all users should contribute new knowledge to the community, since the vast majority are only users, and not addicted to technology (like most who read this blog)
I believe that the best thing for all of us is that there are many more of us regardless of whether they contribute or not. I disagree with your opinion. ordinary people have other things to do. I prefer that a doctor knows how to cure me and I help him with the computer.
I have been working with Linux for more than 10 years, I have never made a technical contribution, I do not plan to do any, my interests are others, linux for me is just a tool. However, I am convinced that the mere fact of using Linux is already a contribution,
I do not think that there are second or third category users or useful and useless, as you suggest, I think that like you, many have different interests and to conclude, if there were only premium and useful users like you, linux would no longer exist for a long time, you should thank useless users for your leisure or work
I don't have a geek ethic even though I'm passionate about computers. I didn't learn programming because I liked to code but because I got into college to become a computer engineer. Now I am almost to receive myself and I know a lot of things that did not stop me from knowing them, but that I learned anyway. Using linux was one of those things. It is highly recommended to develop in many languages that are in fashion …… ..but I lack the spark to develop, something that arises spontaneously from the head and that I see as a necessity to get down to work and give a little of dedication for people to see what I am capable of.
As long as I don't have the spark, I develop for money because money is my love.
Mmmhhh… Not very very, not quite so. Users are one thing, trolls are another. More users, say 5 million? Yes. Those who use GNU / Linux gradually get used to a philosophy in which knowledge must be shared because it is the heritage of humanity, and not of a company. That creates synergy. Do they need to know how to use the console? Mwwweeee… I don't know. Today you can do ALMOST everything from GUI. Windows has a console, and practically nobody uses it, not because it is not necessary, but because they do not know. And they don't die. And if one works seriously with Windows, you better know how to use the cmd console, so we are almost the same as with GNU / Linux. Do those 5 million have to contribute? Not all parishioners in a church are deacons. The important thing about the parishioner is that he is willing, and if he collaborates, the better.
Trolls? They are everywhere; those, no one needs.
Obviously, how much, because if there are more users there will be more games, more proprietary programs (adobe, autocad, etc).
Sorry to tell you friend but Adobe and autocad will not reach Linux, at least it will take 10 or more years for it to happen.
Try Gimp, Krita as an alternative to Photoshop and DraftSlight or LibreCad as an alternative to librecad, what we need is to support more free software developers, reporting bugs or financially so that they give us programs that are a little more at the height of the proprietary ones .
Hello, good morning, your proposal seems to me very similar to that of apple fansboys with the theme of "exclusivity", although yours has a foundation I think that the thing is simple, it is an OS and it is made for people to use it then the more people uses it better and if more people use it, there is a greater chance that more "qualified" users will use it, but a system that is not massive simply dies and is left behind, remembering Symbian OS for mobile phones, but those people you say don't help us If they do it by giving "publicity" as any user does, contributing to the massification of free software as happened with android (based on linux) with mobile phones, the iOS seemed unbreakable but the green robot came and unseated it due to its flexibility and wing "quantity" of terminals and users while apple said about the "exclusivity" while still being a quality mobile OS for me the best available today and improves day by day besides that the "lazy" users If called in your post help us to see how to make the system more intuitive because we remember that many "fear" the device with a qwerty keyboard and touch a terminal in a super open system, people "fear" doing something that will destroy the system and Much of the blame is on Microsoft, since by delivering such a closed platform I get the user used to not being able to do almost anything and going to this is not easy for those who come from Windows, as we know they are the majority and I don't even tell you the users Mac OS they much less, that is, we can have quality and quantity at the same time, more eyes see more problems than a few
It is not about quality or quantity, but about maintaining a firm purpose "Evolve as users"
When I met Linux I was just another Windows XP user, totally ignorant of free software, although I knew something about Opensourse, I ventured with Ubuntu, its users «Oh yes, some brand new geniuses full of wisdom and knowledge as great as Dennis Ritchie» O that's what they think….
Just by mentioning words like Windows, Microsoft, Adobe, they got like full, throwing insults at me everywhere, I was asking for help, not insults, I thought that everything was like that and I returned to Windows.
After a few months, my brother showed me Linux Mint and its great community, here there were pleasant questions and answers and a great friendship, the greatest satisfaction is when you do something alone without help and without Google, no matter how minimal your discovery, you feel great .
Today I have noticed that some Stallman fans seem to harbor hatred or a similar sentiment in their minds and hearts and spend their time criticizing Microsoft. Instead of focusing on what interests them, Linux.
Due to issues of this Monopolized society, I have to see Windows computers on a daily basis, but I use Linux at home and I'm doing great without problems, I have learned to value the work of free developers as proprietary, without having preference over one or the other system.
There will always be a Linuxero who thinks he is God, who did not use anything beyond Win Xp, who never used anivirus and if he had it it was for decoration and who installed as many toolbars as he could in the browser and those are the same ones who live pending of Microsoft's movements.
Even people who criticize other distros incessantly, friends Linux is to share, enjoy and discover, the important thing is that we live in a pleasant environment and if the proprietors do not want to look at our world, they miss it.
I completely agree with you. At home, I have a Dual Boot Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 with 32-bit Debian Wheezy. I have no problem with IE9, but the truth is that I barely have it for decoration and I use Chromium to navigate and Firefox to test its performance in the worst case.
Well, I consider it to be like a basic public school "Is it necessary to make schools for people who ARE NOT PRODUCTIVE, WHO IGNORE ALMOST EVERYTHING?"
teaching and learning are very difficult things but it is the basis of humanity.
Good!
I think you've rushed a bit. In some things I am for you. But for now I am not a great contributor to Linux and I have been using it personally for many years, although it is true that I share everything I know through forums. But for example, I recently installed the Xubuntu distro for a friend and he really does not contribute in any way, to what I want to get, stone by stone we make a wall.
regards
Hello there,
Yes of course, I do not mean that we all have to contribute (although we should contribute even a little something), but rather the way in which novice users often demand help.
And yes friend, stone by stone we make a wall, but how solid can the wall be if the stones are weak? 🙂
To what extent can you consider someone "useful"? Am I useful? Is my mother who only uses the PC for the feisbu and the yutu, is it useful? Should we go back to Windows because we don't give back to the community?
Not everyone can or wants to go around getting into the system, reading the man, reporting bugs (the latter should be automatic if you ask me), etc.
My stepfather, who comes home from work, has dinner in 5 minutes, then goes to the master's degree and arrives at 10 at night. Is he going to want to read about the system? of course not, for him - and most of the people in the world - the computer is just a tool like the cell phone, the TV, the microwave, and that's perfectly fine.
Why not both?
100% agree with you my brother.
Not all of us have the desire or the time to report bugs or cooperate in a forum.
The little time I have has meant that I am not contributing to the Fedora translation group, much less posting to my blog. 🙁
Not everyone can have time to be checking mans, doing Google searches, experimenting… ok right, but can they have time for other things (like putting photos on Facebook) and then demanding in support forums that other people solve their problems? ? O_O
My intention is not to fight, but rather to make users understand that manners are often what determine whether someone else helps you or not. For example, I read in a forum the question of a user, that user indicates that he has X problem, he tried to solve it in different ways but did not succeed, he says that he searched Google and that he could not either, in the end he asks for help and leaves a log of the error… GOD, I want to go to his house in person, solve the problem and even give him my phone number so every time he has a problem, call me and I will help him.
Meanwhile, if I find another user who says he has X problem ... and that's it, zero logs, zero Google search, zero everything, and also DEMANDS that they help him because otherwise he abandons Linux, do you know what makes me want to do that user? 😀
Yes, yes, in that I totally agree with you.
Maybe you just didn't pick the right words for the post.
Right, it seems that you misinterpreted one of my comments in MuyLinux, check it 😉
Yes I checked it, my apologies for the misunderstanding 🙂
One of the dumbest notes I've ever read. I do not think that it aims to massify free software just to "win more people", or to report bugs, or anything you name. The important thing about free software is that it breaks with monopolies, with exploitation, and proposes a type of non-commercial relationship. And it relates to much more than Linux.
Your opinion seems to me, simply, that of one of those many linux users who believe the grace of God.
+1000
ha, I hadn't seen the comments before writing. Now that I read them, well ... answered your question. You're on the other side of the well splashing (luckily).
By the way, the blog is very good! hehe.
Well, that is a complicated subject and in the middle of the last century someone thought the same in Germany, in the end they got a fat one.
I can't quite understand the segmentation you do, in everything there will be people with more knowledge and others with less. That does not give a higher value to one or it detracts from others, it is so.
The fact that there is a greater user base will favor the network effect over Linux, so that there will be a greater number of contributions, on the contrary I have serious doubts that more users imply a greater number of queries, on the contrary it is more than likely more bugs to be resolved. What I do believe is likely that certain distributions stand out over others by number of users, with their problems being the first to be solved.
As a sample, you will see that at the end of 2014 Steam OS is among the 10 most used OS and among the 5 most installed linux distributions.
They saw the re-post http://www.muylinux.com/2013/10/02/cuantos-mas-seamos-mejor/ ?
I think you have a part of reason. But the number of users can be important so that, for example, it is possible to compete with proprietary formats that create standards as well as for hardware manufacturers to take Linux into account. For the development of free software itself, as you well explain, "quality is more important than" quantity. "
iiiaa Gaara, get ready that some of them have already started lighting the torches .. haha ..
Just kidding .. although there is an answer in Muy Linux: http://www.muylinux.com/2013/10/02/cuantos-mas-seamos-mejor/
Yes I already saw ... what to read in those comments, LOL !!
This article seemed to me the most frivolous and selfish than I could ever expect from a Linux user.
The simple use of a Linux distro is already a contribution, increasing the number of users entails more support from the manufacturers, and we are not overflowing precisely in this regard. Linux, on the desktop, still falls short, the thing is not to despise the support that manufacturers can provide.
I feel embarrassed with this article.
The simple use is not a contribution, because it contributes absolutely nothing to anyone but you. Linux never depended on the support of the manufacturers nor should it ever depend because dependency puts freedom at risk, I don't know where it falls short according to you, for me the margin of advantage that takes others is too long.
contributes absolutely nothing? go to popcon.debian.org popcon.ubuntu.com and see how simple statistical data provided by "users" influences which packages are installed by default, such as the order they will follow on CDs / DVDs. Debian does not follow a leader with final decisions like Ubuntu (who decided to use unity and buttons on the left because he is the owner), it needs users to make decisions.
Firefox also collects telemetry to know how we use the browser (this is how they removed the button «Show images» «Activate Javascript», things I did not like).
Regarding the post:
In the end it seems that you want there to be more "useful" users, or that it belongs to an elite. So let's close everything, why do we do SL installation festivals if not to spread the word to the general population? Perhaps the users who come do not contribute actively (or return to their windows), but nobody forced them to come, they have an interest in learning and within that group there may be one to whom you have opened their eyes and raised their conscience, And who knows, one day the next Stallman will be (Icaza was that promise, I don't know what happened to him). The fact that a person voluntarily (and having recorded windows as a child) has decided to take an interest in Linux / GNU / SL seems remarkable to me. Remarkable because among PC users there are many people who do not even know what windows really is.
"I don't know where it falls short according to you, for me the margin of advantage that leads to others is too long"
In applications perhaps?
Let's face it, Linux as an OS is infinitely much better than Windows and OS X, but it lacks applications, many for Linux to be really productive in many desktop environments for both private users and companies.
What happens is that there is a minority who believe themselves Gods for the mere fact of using Linux, and they hate that people without knowledge use this OS, because their exclusivity would run out.
Many people want an OS for their day to day, regardless of the technical aspects, I find it incredible that you champion the freedom of the software and then restrict the freedom of a user to decide which OS to use.
Sorry for the Off-Topic, but it looks like the guys at FayerWayer did a Requiem about 30 years of GNU >> http://www.fayerwayer.com/2013/10/gnu-y-su-influencia-en-los-ultimos-30-anos/
That is not a requiem but an account of the GNU life story that is more alive than ever.
When I said Requiem, I meant the site. GNU is more alive than ever (albeit talibanendo).
It seems to me that saying "why have a million users who do not collaborate" is a way of discriminating. I understand your point of view, because many developers released the code for everyone to improve it, but most people use their PC as a work or leisure tool.
On the other hand, it can be an opportunity for those who know the system well in depth, to have a business as technicians, since any computer neophyte may not know how to install a program, use it or solve problems.
In addition, there will always be users who want to collaborate in one way or another as they have been doing so far.
For my part, I can say that I am very satisfied with the system and especially with the idea behind Free Software. It is something that must be made known
no matter how many users there are, but undoubtedly significant growth would improve the hardware problem.
The first basic error in the article is to think that a user has to be something more than that.
The user buys a product, so that it is useful to him, and it helps him to do the work for which it is intended.
And I say "buy" well, even if the price is 0.
Another different problem is that the operating systems come incorporated with the machine and we are not allowed their choice.
I honestly think and with no intention of offending that you did not understand anything about free software.
Explain to us, please.
hahaha… what an answer! just much of what the note criticizes! a little consistency! Perhaps reading the comments you can get an idea. Otherwise, following the orientation of the note, you could use the search engine.
Come on, everyone has an opinion, but seriously, their reading of free software left many more than perplexed. It seems that the only thing they understand by free is "use of many", without seeing, as I said before, what this implies.
You don't need to explain anything. In this blog they have already explained it very well, several times, I don't know why comrade KZKG ^ Gaara will have come out with such a crazy and incorrect approach.
Luckily he didn't use Management by Perkele.
The way I see it, it's not crazy at all, just that maybe I didn't explain myself well or I didn't understand what I said.
As I said in another comment below:
In effect, the idea is to contribute as much as each one can, my 'negative' or 'criticism' is directed (if you want to see it that way) to users who (novices or not) are comfortable, they prefer to ask anyone and demand that they solve their problem, they prefer to do this instead of trying to solve the problem themselves.
I think that to help Linux and make it grow as a community is also important and it is necessary to grow
it's good to believe someone who thinks he's an anime character ...
I don't think the difference is 1.000.000 more or 1.000 less.
The idea is to contribute in what each one needs, I am a typical user of the system because I got bored of paying a license (although I never did) for something that I found elsewhere for free ...
more respect with the new users of the system, since they look for the same thing that you once looked for. because I don't think you always used linux, if you studied network administration you should have started with windows server.
And I don't think anyone ever told you that you shouldn't switch to Linux, because they preferred someone to contribute.
Believe someone who "believes" an anime character?
So you think you are a clown because of your avatar? 0_oU
In effect, the idea is to contribute as much as each one can, my 'negative' or 'criticism' is directed (if you want to see it that way) to users who (novices or not) are comfortable, they prefer to ask anyone and demand that they solve their problem, they prefer to do this instead of trying to solve the problem themselves.
By the way, I did not study network administration nor did I specialize in something at the university, far from it, everything I know I have learned by reading, man, articles in Spanish and English, experimenting and above all, trying to fix my problems myself This is how you learn, or will you tell me that I'm wrong?
I liked the post, regarding the question I choose conscience, conscious users of their actions are needed, what we do not need are simple "consumers" who want to put on potochop and officce.
Unconsciousness I know has loaded a lot of cool things and turning GNU into an android is not something I would like to see
Hello,
"Conscious users of their actions are needed"
More or less that's where the thing goes.
regards
The vast majority of users use the PC for everyday life: send an email, write something, make some accounts, listen to music, watch a video, participate in their social networks, etc. And if your PC works for that, you don't care about the OS and surely you won't look for "bugs"… .. On the other hand, if the OS you use is Linux, love that your PC is surely more stable, more secure, more customizable (?), etc, more attention will be paid by hardware manufacturers to meet the needs of a larger market.
@ KZKG ^ Gaara: «Quantity or Quality…. That is the question! … what do you think?".
What I think is that you shouldn't drink so much coffee before writing an article. Imagine that your text is as "welcome" on the pages of all distributions. Nobody would use Linux after reading this, because it is more or less like saying "If you do not know or have time to learn, do not install this OS". The truth is that if you wanted to refer to certain lazy users, the kind who have heavy fingers to use the search engine, you faced the question in a rather unpleasant way.
Nothing personal ok? But I totally disagree with your opinion.
regards
As I said before, don't worry, nothing happens. You do not agree, and you have every right.
I will repeat what I said in another comment:
The idea is to contribute as much as each one can, my 'negative' or 'criticism' is directed (if you want to see it that way) to users who (newbies or not) settle in, prefer to ask anyone and demand that they solve their problem (style "linux sucks, if they don't help me I'll go back to windows"), they prefer to do this instead of trying to solve the problem themselves.
I still appreciate you Lol. Just try to put a little humanity in these types of articles. I understand you, several times I sent several users to Google, but I tried and I try - it is difficult sometimes because sometimes they are dense - to do it in the most friendly way possible.
Sometimes humanity is not my main virtue hahaha, I live in a country where sometimes I could become a supervillain (with the appropriate means) and try to destroy the world HAHAHAHAHA.
Jokes aside, I still try to help users, whether they are newbies or not (god, together with elav and other friends we are the leaders of the SWL movement in Cuba!), But both lazy, demanding, impolite and even rude users often put try our patience 🙂
That a user demands the resolution of his problem, gives to think. They have or believe they have the right NOT to have the problem. And in part they are probably right EXCEPT that the distros like all the SL comes without guarantees ... In that sense you should not be bothered by someone demanding something, they refer it to the corresponding free software license that I accept when using the software.
Thanks for your comment.
The "problem" (if it can be called that) is that the user demands help, demands that others solve his problem (often caused by ignorance) and in case of not being able to help him (or not as fast as he wanted), then goes around claiming Linux is rubbish etc etc.
I agree and that I am someone who is just entering the Linux world. The truth is that I do not contribute much (or rather nothing) but I want to learn more to contribute. What I do is search the net and ask acquaintances who know more. You are also right in the manners of some on the forums.
Thank you for your comment.
Indeed, I am not an anti-rookie by any means, in fact I am the first who tries to put himself in the shoes of a novice user in order to help him better, only that is the problem, the manners of some in forums are sincerely disappointing 🙁
Again, thank you very much for your comment.
It seems incredible to me what I have just read ... and more incredible that an administrator of one of the most viewed Spanish-speaking sites reflects in such a Leninist way, how users of an operating system should be ... what to tell you that they haven't told you ... simply that I am a novice and normal user, without technical knowledge, and I will not stop being a linux user because you are bothered by the questions of users like me, but do not worry, since with what many of us wrote , inexperienced users in your eyes, we will stop hanging around this, YOUR site ... I leave you a tip, because you do not take an examination of those users who want to register, that way you make sure that you will be interacting with users at your level, capable that this page helps you so that those who approve it register http://www.daypo.com/test-gnu-linux-2007.html Good life Mr KZKG ^ Gaara.
If you've been offended even though I didn't mention you in particular, well, it's up to you. If in addition, you have been offended because you did not know how to correctly interpret what I said (or I did not make myself understood), well ...
At no time did I say that each new user has to be tested, far from it, what a crazy idea O_O ... I don't have ANYTHING either, I repeat, NOTHING against novice users:
The idea is to contribute as much as each one can, my 'negative' or 'criticism' is directed (if you want to see it that way) to users who (novices or not) settle in, prefer to ask anyone and demand that they solve their problem ("linux sucks, if they don't help me I'll go back to windows" style), they prefer to do this instead of trying to solve the problem themselves.
In the same way, whether or not you want to stop reading this site, it is your decision, I will only ask you one question, have you read any other tutorial or post made by me?
I recommend that you review the articles I have written, and then you will tell me if I am an anti-novice or not ... ¬_¬
https://blog.desdelinux.net/author/kzkggaara
Let's see if I can do the troll chronicles in the forum (if I put it on the blog, it would build a flame).
It seems to me as they say before, that the post is not very indicated, and less if it appears in the first place of the sites that speak of linux. I've been testing Linux since 2009, when I started with Mandriva. I have tried Ubuntu, Mint, Arch, Xubuntu, Mageia (my favorite and my current main system). I have visited sites, I have exposed problems, and I have provided some other solutions. I like computing in general. In this case I have to reproach you for a lack of tact towards new Linux users that you should correct. I have installed Mageia to several people who use the system for daily life, and they have not had any problem, if it is true that they have asked me several things, but nothing out of the ordinary, since as we will all agree, linux has advanced a lot in terms of user experience. We have to bear in mind that whoever uses the system for daily use, necessarily has to learn (if something is installed that he has not seen), no matter how little, from someone who has operated it, and this is independent of who seeks online, tutorials, bugs, etc., because not all users have time to search and investigate the web. Clearer example, Mageia 3 installed to a relative, he asks me several things, which simply differ with Windows in that ... they do not appear in the same way ...
Hello,
Maybe (I think) the problem is in the way the post has been interpreted.
As I have already said in more than 10 comments, my criticism is aimed at users who do not have exactly good manners when they ask for help, who demand in an authoritarian way that their problem be solved, when ... it is indeed, THEIR problem and themselves they haven't even tried to fix them themselves.
regards
Taking the article to the world outside of computing, the author might wonder if there are not enough humans who do not contribute anything to the planet. Maybe it would be good to exterminate a few million people, total, they are ignorant uneducated.
I think we all bring something to the table, and we can't blame the HOYGANs for being uneducated and disrespectful without giving them at least one chance to learn.
Taking the post out of computer science, no, it is not that there are humans that are left over (although ... well ... LOL!), It is that there are people who far from contributing something that benefits the planet, the community, the country, far from this they only annoy and harm us. For example, child rapists, serial killers, this type of person if there is "excess" or not, it would be a debate where some could comment based on false ethics, and others not, but the point is that people like the aforementioned don't you think who deserve to be in non-freedom?
Now I ask you, are there or there are not enough people in this world? 😉
Taking the article out of the computer world is like creating a useless off-topic that has nothing to do with it.
I'm sorry KZKG ^ Gaara but I don't agree with you. new users are always contributing. Most of the distros, if not all, have (as everyone knows) an error notification system which helps developers to solve bugs, so new users are indirectly helping to correct them. On the other hand, your questions always help us, remember that a question results in an answer and these answers have saved our skin more than once. so a message for all new users, «ask everything you want, your questions help us and are well received»
Don't worry, it's your right to disagree friend amigo
Regarding the bug report, I don't know to what extent it is true or not, I'm pretty sure that a huge percent of users ignore or close the window that says "Send bug report" as it reminds them of "Send or not send report" WindowsXP, that or they just don't know what to do with it.
Anyway, thank you very much for your comment, it is very nice to read such polite responses, really, thank you very much.
You are a bit extreme. What I have been able to understand from the post is that Gnu / Linux does not have to become windows, that we do not need to make each of the windows users switch to Linux. Simply Linux is an alternative, open to anyone who wants to use it, but without fights to win users.
If I have not misunderstood, I agree with KZKG Gaara
Idem
I also think that Linux users should be more concerned with making our own way rather than trying to imitate the trends imposed by others.
What we need is more people to use it, so that people like amd don't keep making closed drivers as bad as the ones they are doing.
The decision to make drivers better or worse is NOT made by people in the community, it is not made by users, it is made by AMD executives. What's stopping you from making better drivers for 1000 users and not waiting for 1.000.000? ...
Thank you, THANK YOU * - *
It is VERY but VERY nice to know that someone understands me, this phrase of yours is wonderful: "Gnu / Linux does not have to become windows, we do not need to make each of the windows users go to Linux."
I used to recommend Linux, but they broke my balls so much with questions about installations, settings (webcam, flash, audio, skype, netflix, etc). Now I'm still using Debian but I recommend Windows7 + antivirus and that's it.
Google uses the Linux kernel and creates its own video system - without raising any fuss like Mir - and has Android the most used OS on mobile devices and Chrome OS that has recovered the cheap laptop - and well - that segment that ASUS wasted by removing his Linux - Xandros - and put an MS WOS capped into one of the worst deals in the company no matter how much MS paid him.
On the other hand, the expensive MS WOS 8 Ultrabook fails and the future MS WOS 8 hybrids will fail. What is Intel waiting to sell with Tizen - another linux - pre-installed?
The normal user loves Linux but does not know it,
If a company packages and sells it well, Xandros, Android, ChromeOS + Crouton, AND future FirefoxOS Tizen or salfish are satisfied, and I hope that Ubuntu phone that promises a lot, has an ACL - Android compatibility layer - in fact I do not understand that there is no ACL for the Linux desktop yet - it should not be difficult to do a kind of Crouton with Android X86 to be able to play with the keyboard + mouse on our desktop computers -
Ubuntu is beginning to be massively pre-installed in Asia, South America is another very interesting market due to its economic growth, but still low purchasing power compared to the USA, and not only does it save on OS, but also on packaging and technical assistance is local, improving the economy.
I stay with Manjaro, still in beta, when it is stable it will have no competition for those of us who want a reliable and well preconfigured ARCH
The point is, Ale, sometimes you are less tactful than I am, and I'm usually rough.
Your approach, in a way is not bad, you also have to see that in the community there is a huge amount of sandy ladies who, at any merely scratchy comment, jump to tears. As there are also others who really do not agree with your comment and tell you how it is, without tantrum.
What do I think? For me "useful or useless" users do not exist, simply some who know more than others and in Linux we have more than "those who don't know" than those who know, and many don't even want to know, that doesn't matter.
My point is, first, that if more people are needed for the system to grow and people who know like you and many others, they can use that knowledge in a market full of (no offense, but it is the correct term) ignorant, like it happens with Windows or OSx, where those who know, charge for what they know.
Therefore, in this type of case, quantity benefits quality 😉
Beyond that, did your comment sound sectarian? Fuck it, this is a free site where you can express yourself as long as you don't touch on certain topics that are not consistent with the blog's theme.
No man at all, the question is not that I have little or much tact, the question is that you read (and understand) what I say well, come on, I don't think so?
I'm not saying hala! we are going to exterminate the newbies far from it (actually and although now many do not believe it, I am one of those who most defend the newbies), but I am simply saying that users should perhaps show a little more interest in solving their own problems. In other words, it is very nice to demand help and say that "if they don't help me, I'll stop linux, linux is crap" ... or something like that, the idea is that each one tries to solve the problem, in case they can't then of course ask help is fine.
Anyway ... I am sad to read many comments (even in MuyLinux some call me fascist, WTF!), Honestly ... disappointment is what I feel when I read some comments ... 🙁
This is not the community that we started two years ago Alejandro, now we have a mix of 80% idiots and 20% people, and let them burn me if they feel like it, because before I didn't see the need to distribute whores or send shit people, before I could sit down and have a real discussion thread, quite strong and even flamed, but never, never had it come to the point of offending.
Things have changed, I always say it and you know it, now we have a number of people with a "renewed sense of correctness" who are offended by any nonsense that reads and thinks they are a warrior of morality, of political correctness ... before me he could say "to hell with everything" in an article and no one was offended, everyone simply understood that it was not vulgarity or offense, but simple colloquialism, an expression.
Now, Jah!, now I say "fuck" in an article and everyone jumps and says things like "oh god, how low it has fallen." DesdeLinux»...
We are no longer the serious community that knew how to interpret the different expressions of those who wrote, few of us were left who really read what was written and we did not roll our eyes and jump to the flame without thinking twice.
The community, no matter who it hurts, is saturated with imbeciles, and I do not mean to say that they all are, but that there are, there are, and to a greater extent than before.
I said.
Unfortunately, there will always be that type of madmen who come to speak nonsense as if they were the divine ointment. They really cause pity.
If they really wanted to make a good speech, they would. Obviously, this is neither FayerWayer nor another site that relies heavily on AdSense or third-party advertising (and less on copywriters who like to make flames to gain more visits), so I would have liked any comments made here ( including myself) was under moderation. If I were editor-in-chief, I'd be happy to do it, but since I'm an average contributor, I have no choice but to enter the debate.
The saddest thing about being in a forum of madmen is that they will always shield themselves from attacks Ad-hominem And since they like to attack, it is better to let them make a fool of themselves (or at least, if you take the risk, than to just troll you in the smartest way possible and make a tremendous idiot).
Anyway, those who are dedicated to generalizing Hispanic Linux users by calling us madmen, is simply another madman.
Nano, don't you now make the arrogance (and the mistake) of believing in the 20% ... it seems that the one who throws the tantrum is you 😉 Keep in mind that people have the right to be an asshole and stop being so , and we all get into the word people.
Long ago I told elav that these things could not be avoided if the community of readers increased, and it is inevitable. Do you always want a good community? Then you will have to close it and stay who you were ... which also sounds exclusive to me.
A greeting!
And ... man, it happens that your post is half past. First, I apologize for the rudeness of my first comment, but what it is about here is to fight to free users from the yoke of proprietary software, not to create a beautiful sect of hackers.
Look if Fidel had said "I'd rather fight with a good handful of expert guerrillas than with thousands of poorly trained peasants" ... the story would have been different.
I think we must be very clear about our objective.
Maybe he hadn't won and they weren't so deep in shit.
The thing is, you don't have to "fight a yoke" either, because there's no such thing. Unlike what many people think, nobody forces you to use Windows, at any time you can change the operating system, and if you don't, it is purely because you don't want to.
Like for example, at the moment I am using Chromium Nightly on Windows 7 (Unfortunately, it is not my PC).
That is not what I mean.
The yoke of not being able to use a program as you want.
The yoke of not being able to know how a program works or what it does.
The yoke of not being able to modify that program so that it works as you want.
The yoke of not being able to distribute that program as you please.
Well-known things here, but it doesn't hurt to write again.
The truth is, I think guys, seriously, you have no idea what Free Software is. And I think that is the gross error of the post. And then now, in the comments they have taken it to something like "we don't have to copy to windows" ?? And then they have branded whoever leaves comments as a troll and I don't know what. And the truth is that I have not read bad milk in the comments. Except in those of you who call troll and flammer, and "explain me what you know" (that is, arrogant to fart).
And this to where they take it in the Windows comments is a falsehood. Do you know how many times they name Windows or Microsoft in the note? 0 (zero) Not one ... so I think the best thing is to have a bit of self-criticism, or simply admit that a note was misspelled and something was understood that was not meant to be said. But bringing this from Windows now is bullshit. Cheers
KZKG ^ Gaara, I can only tell you that I didn't intend to build a flame at your expense, among other things because I don't need it; building a flame is really simple. In fact, I have taken a look around here and there are comments as or more harsh than those dedicated to you in MuyLinux. By the way, nobody calls you a fascist, they call that specific opinion that you express, which is not the same, a fascist. And the truth is that this opinion is exclusive.
I know that you do not say anything about exterminating anyone, but that you advocate that people behave and take some responsibility, in which I agree would be the ideal, although I also believe that it is not realistic (I explain all that in my reply ).
After reading your explanations, it gives me the feeling that you did not choose the words well, something that can happen to anyone. But this:
we-really-need-thousands-of-millions-of-linux-users-quality-before-quantity
Personally, I think that the idea that those words convey is totally contrary to the free software movement.
Anyway, a greeting and weather the storm, which passes quickly 😉
Man of course not, I know you did not intend to build a flame at my expense.
Exactly, what I'm trying to say is that everyone should know how to behave, that if you have a problem in Linux, it's YOUR problem first, if you don't put the slightest effort into trying to solve it yourself, with what right are you going to demand that others solve it for you ?
Yes, maybe I didn't choose the words well because ... I don't know, maybe I sin in today's world of being too sincere, too honest, nowadays anyone is insulted or offended by anything on the internet, then they want to come up with their false ethics and their false morals to want to be the most socially / politically correct… O_O…
About the storm, already today ... today, I don't care 😀
I will continue sharing advanced and not so advanced tutorials, tips, advice, interesting things ... for now, it is much more than what other people do who believe they have the right to, without having correctly interpreted what I said (or at least , without giving me the benefit of the doubt), they believe they have the right to criticize me as they wish.
I totally agree that there are many users that would only cause problems if there were a massive migration to GNU / Linux.
In my case, I am a technical support advisor and on a daily basis I have to deal with people who do not even know what a web browser is, who even confuse it with Google the search engine (that is not so much the problem as I can explain); But it arises when they know how to be reckless to ask for help. They use bad manners, bad words and even get hysterical because something that they screw up doesn't work.
I also believe that there are on the other hand, many GNU / Linux gurus who when the time to have a certain level, become arrogant, rude and louts. They cannot understand that not everyone has the ability to understand certain aspects of technology and that if they do not wish to respond, they should at least be educated.
Sometimes the problems are more about attitudes than lack of knowledge.
Regards!
"Sometimes the problems are more about attitudes than lack of knowledge."
AMEN!!
+1! ... For me it is easier to deidiotize, than to lower the fumes of the arrogant and there there is a clash of empty heads against heads that do not want to let out their knowledge ... Never ending theme ...
I think KZKG ^ Gaara that the problem is not in the content of your article, but in the way you present it
In some part of your article you mention that you are "referring only and exclusively to the behavior of users", and I believe in my opinion that this must have been the title of this article
Because like many Linux users, at some point I was an ignorant novice, but unlike others, I had the attitude to want to learn, day by day, about Linux and thus get out of my ignorance
Unfortunately this is not the attitude of the majority, and as in everything in this life, you will always find yourself on your way with those parasites that never want to do anything for themselves or contribute something positive to the rest.
I am very grateful for users like you and Elav who spend part of their valuable time sharing their knowledge in the Linux world
regards
Hello,
Yes, I think you're right, people (as I have seen) have read the title of the article and haha, the rest of the post they have read almost pre-arranged.
I, like you, like everyone, have been a novice (because I was not born with the happiness of knowing everything from the womb), and I recognize that many times when I asked a question in a forum my spelling was not the best, the information that contributed (logs) was almost nil at the beginning, but I never, I repeat, NEVER demanded help and much less had bad manners.
Even if they criticize me, even if they can call me whatever they like… I will continue to contribute what I know, with advanced and not so advanced tutorials, tips, etc., well, should someone do it right? 😀
greetings and thanks for your comment
In Latin America, especially, basic education is abandoned, the study plans are not enough to develop the human being. The emergence of the Internet has made it possible to close the gap a bit between those who know, with only having a command of Spanish. It will only be the desire to learn a new language. In previous years you could only access linux through subscriptions to magazines where an orphan distribution came, but with technologies this practice is no longer necessary. Both GNU / Linux and Microsofot have the quantity and quality of users they deserve without falling into fanaticism, that is their reality. But just as there are good and bad human elements, there are also good and bad blogs, with repetitive themes, with the same people participating, even without specific indications. Cheers
You are not being a bit radical, it seems to ME that you spent in that one, the objective of Free Soft, in the end is to free those who cannot pay a license, remember that,. >>> salu2s my greatest respect, I always read your articles
Hello,
The objective of the SWL is to free those who want to be released, do not have or do not have what to pay a license.
I'm not really trying to exclude anyone, novices or others, I'm just trying to make everyone have a conscience and understand that they CAN try to solve their own problems, that Google is a friend by god, and that (above all), if not be able to solve their problem themselves, they should ask for help in forums and communities yes, but with education, courtesy, etc.
Obviously the fact that there are many users of free software does have an influence on the future of free software.
The more we are, the less force the closed standards of ios files (doc, xls ...) will have so that we can use eg. libreoffice without being hit because you are one of the few who use those free formats.
The more we are, the more likely hardware manufacturers will be to program drivers for our platform. And the same for the software; If valve or steam are thinking of spending money on supporting gnu / linux, it is because they have reached (or want it to be) a certain number of users, clumsy or not, gurus or newbies. And that benefits everyone.
The more we are, the more protected our freedom will be, because it is more effective and resistant to attacks from the privatizing world if we all enjoy it.
Health!
I think I agree with you and I don't. Let me explain: I agree that, taking into account the quality of the Linux community (probably because you have to deal with some problems, especially if you like to "play" and try things) it has to do with the participation of the forums and of the solutions that occur in them. So above all it is of interest that the people who come "contribute" to the maximum and "distract" the minimum. I think many people have misunderstood you: it is not that the newbies (in which I include myself to a certain extent), it is good that people ask, but it has to be done in the right way, after looking for it in the manuals (dear man!), trying to put the maximum of the specifications, etc. This way the community will be more fluid, efficient and of quality.
That said, I do not agree to say "those who do not stay in Windows, even if we are few." And I'm not because I don't see Linux as an end (or not only at least) but as a means. I am interested that people understand and live the philosophy of free software, I am interested in that people learn to look for a feature or solution in the manual, I am interested in that people know how to ask and do it with education. So it does not help me at all that there are many people who do not do it and stay in Windows, since my main objective is for people to use their computer better and more ethically. Obviously I like that Linux is better, has more support, etc. But it is a secondary objective (more pragmatic and to some extent selfish).
It is the hard way, but the one that takes you to the best port in the end :).
Hello,
"It is good that people ask, but it has to be done in the right way"
Exactly what I wanted to say.
I couldn't agree more with your comment.
Perhaps (as I said in other comments) I did not make myself understood well, the idea is not to test all those who wish to use Linux, and those who do not approve it to stay in Windows (as another user mentioned), but that everyone (novices, advanced, etc.) understand that Linux is a way of life, a philosophy, that everyone should make the maximum effort to contribute, help, contribute, and in case of not being able to help in any way (difficult thing ... but well ...), that at least they do not demand that others invest time in solving their problems, that they do not threaten with "either you help me or I leave Linux" ... It is normal to have problems, it is even more normal not to know how to solve a certain situation but it's normal (or it shouldn't be) is to demand help without even having a bit of education 🙁
The idea of this post is just one: 1. Create awareness in users, that everyone either helps or at least has the decency and education to help others who will help them
Yes yes… a little tangled to read LOL!
Thanks for your comment, friend
Good article, it invites reflection. It is good to think about giving back a little of the much we receive. Cheers
The problem is that the more users use the system, the better the support for our hardware will be.
..And I thought that with just a few linux (kubuntu) it already helped something ..
correcting, I meant.
And I thought that just using Linux (Kubuntu) already helped something….
I do not program, my profession is different, I use Linux.
lol
Hi Gaara. I have not commented on the page for a long time.
I feel like an intermediate user between those you describe. I'm not the type to report bug logs, to write articles to explain how to do something, to fix bugs, to test betas, or anything like that. But I'm not one of those who get angry at GNU / Linux when they can't solve something, or one who demands help on the forums.
In my experience with GNU/Linux since 2010, there have been frustrating moments, but most of the time I have solved the problem. I have never participated in a forum, I am too lazy to register (I did it in the DesdeLinux for a difficult problem, but I forgot to come back there). I have always searched and searched until I found it. I have also learned a lot by trying and rehearsing. I am very happy with GNU/Linux and, although I am not an expert nor do I know how to program, I can already do everything I need to have a system working perfectly and without problems.
One characteristic of this intermediate user that I am is that I would like to learn more: I would like to do all the things that you mention that users who "don't contribute anything" don't do. I notice that the problem with some tutorials and articles is that they are aimed at knowledgeable users and therefore assume many concepts and knowledge that beginners lack. In many readings of articles, I always have to go to online searches to better locate myself in the context and understand what they are talking about. Two years ago, when it started DesdeLinux, I always asked you to consider that.
Well, I just wanted to leave an opinion. I think that even when there are users who "contribute nothing", Linux will continue to grow.
Completely agree. even though I qualify myself as a new user ... since for more than about three years I have been with Linux, whenever I have had a problem I do what you say: I search, I investigate, I screw with the terminal ... I like it. but I have noticed that as there are more people using Linux, the help is more precious than gold and not many offer it ... I DO SAY QUALITY BEFORE QUANTITY, after all that is one of the bases from where Linux was born
If it is okay that many users have to know certain basic concepts of computer science. Years ago a person who installed the system by himself was considered a hacker by most people or an inveterate Geek. But nowadays that is done by anyone by the trial error method regardless of the distro due to the amount of information on the internet. Even from advanced distros, only users who contribute more at the project and development level are considered hacker or advanced.
Anyone who knows certain concepts of your system can fix certain things effectively be it the grub or the default graphic theme. It is these users who are able to report bugs effectively. This would help many developments.
Distros always put in their repos many projects that, although they do not have a page or are so colorful, are useful for someone and of course they are licensed under gpl or similar. If we were all sysadmin, many professionals in this area would not have jobs. Many computer experts are specialists in something.
If GNU / Linux you have more users, the benefit would be for the most reliable since we would have free drivers and more developers in native programs. As well as more interpolarity of free standards.
The private world would benefit so well but that is another matter.
What matters is that more users is always beneficial. There are distros for all tastes and users for any distro. The question would be win win.
Those of us who are experts or skilled with our distros today would benefit in many ways. It was always the idea of the GNU project to have the wonderful design and philosophy of Unix within reach of everything always free. Not for nothing if we look beyond the desktop the dominating system model is GNU / Linux.
I have been using Linux for several years, the first distribution I installed at the time was Conectiva Linux. In particular, I solve my problems with this system in the forums but not by asking but by reading answers that other users have given with my same problems. I have read a lot of "advanced" Linux users, I don't know what about, with a very bad predisposition and an unbearable bragging to the ridiculous point that because I know how to type "sudo apt-get install cosme-so-and-so" they already believe "developers Software »and the other is an underfunded jerk. That is what led me to become reluctant to participate in forums and this type of opinion does not help.