As the title says, this is a question chic @ s ... in case we deny access to users who try to access through Tor, what would you think about it?
The reason we can have for this is simply as they say, Elav and I watch our backs. As some of you know, elav and I were born and live in Cuba, where openly criticizing the government is not always welcomed, taking advantage of this some users in recent days put some comments completely out of place, political comments, criticizing and offending members of the government of here that…. honestly, on a Free Software site, comments like this have nothing to do, am I wrong?
The comments were made by someone using an IP from the Tor network, comments that if they had not sent SPAM quickly, perhaps they could have caused serious problems for elav and me.
The first solution that comes to mind is through configurations on the servers, deny access to the site if you try to access using Tor, and here I repeat the question, What do you think about it?
Tor is used by those who want to browse anonymously, something that I do not criticize and I do applaud, since I myself often need to access websites using methods like that, however, DesdeLinux It is not a site that is under the surveillance of the NSA, FBI or aliens from Jupiter 😀 what reasons (healthy, real) could someone have for wanting to access DesdeLinux anonymously?
I leave it there.
We are very interested in knowing the opinion of all of you regarding this, because in the end everything we do here is always thinking about the well-being and comfort of you, the readers.
regards
Personally, I think yes, it should be blocked. Reasons, exactly those that you expose. Since I have known them, they are a tremendous contribution to the knowledge of those of us who work in the Linux environment - GNU / Linux (for the purists) and I find it disgusting that the site is used for political issues that have nothing to do with it. I also have my opinion regarding what happens in Cuba, but I reserve it to comment face to face with whoever wants to share it, in the appropriate place, in addition, I always post with my real name because it represents me, equal respect to who use pseudonyms and all that, since so far, I have had no problem with those who do.
The other reason why it should be blocked is to maintain the high profile of the site, among those who create content and share their knowledge it is necessary that the site be visited only by people with a desire to learn or other collaborators, many times in the comments you find Very good answers and they are a real contribution, nobody is interested in a troll that only comes to talk stupid things or to put together forobardo, as happens in some technology sites in my country (Chile).
In addition, the site does not have advertising, it does not benefit from visits (I think), but it benefits from people who share and make this blog what it is today, a benchmark in terms of Linux - GNU / Linux (for the Taliban) is concerned.
Thank you guys, you have my full support, you really are the best.
Greetings.
So far, the only thing I'm trolling is with the user agent (I use IE from time to time to blow their patience, but it seems that they are tired of criticizing so much).
Me with the "Purists / Taliban" ... there are lots of those ...
Of those trolls, I already know them (of those of FayerWayer, too).
I do not agree, the internet community is based on two models. 1 The facebook model and the other the 4chan model. The first requires that you really identify yourself first name last name photo, the second does not even ask for nickname. The facebook model ends up giving you more problems than solutions and also does not let you express yourself freely. Right now there is the topic of youtube that through that same model seeks to reduce "trolling" but in reality what it wants is to really identify you, it seeks to know who you are at all times in order to offer you personalized advertising and also monitor you for sinister purposes. Internet blogs should not use the facebook model. I don't know how things are in Cuba and I don't really care. If they cannot offer a site where the user can express himself as he pleases, maybe they should dedicate themselves to something else. Support for TOR navigation and the use of false nicknames, it protects us from all and also in this case this page is full of very advanced computer users, I tell you from my home and you know what country I am in, the IP from where I am I connect, my operating system and browser, you have all the information served to do evil. Whether you do it or not is another matter. Better safe than sorry that there are no saints anywhere.
"I don't know how things are in Cuba and I don't really care" Thanks for the collaborative spirit ,,, (sarcasm off mode) ... look man, if you're not interested in what might happen to the blog and its creators, better save yourself your opinion.
"If they cannot offer a site where the user can express himself as he pleases, maybe they should dedicate themselves to something else" Okay, not entering the site is enough; and I could already recommend that for comments like this, better dedicate yourself to something else.
"If they cannot offer a site where the user can express himself as he pleases, maybe they should dedicate themselves to something else"
I will answer this with two sentences: "Your freedom ends where mine begins" & "Freedom is not the same as debauchery"
you beat me by the hand, I have already seen many people who believe they are in favor of "freedom" but in truth what they promote is debauchery
Thank you very much for your comment.
The idea is not simply to restrict, deny and voila, precisely as that is not the idea is that I made this post, where together we give our opinions and try to reach the best for all 🙂
And yes indeed, we do not have advertising nor do we plan to add 😉
Very well. I do not know other blogs but I know that at least this one, when serious things happen that can harm both the site and its users, everyone's opinion was always asked and trying to be a democratic system, to choose what is best for everyone.
I think it would be a good idea, as they say. Why enter DesdeLinux Anonymously? I don't see the point, other than trolling or being annoying like they did, so given the circumstances they face I think it's a prudent idea.
The only thing that would motivate me to use tor to access desdelinux is that you are connected to a proxy that rejects the site.
In any other country do ISPs or universities reject Linux sites? O_O
That would already be unheard of and crazy.
Seeing that possibility, I decided to take a look if the blog tops Baidu searches, and the truth is that they were saved. They are not vetoed by the Chinese government.
rather they reject some blogs in general, not specifically those of linux (for example in my work)
Yes yes that's normal, here in my country they are VERY fond of using Squid's whitelists 🙂
Nah. We are precisely my case but in my work, the internet connection is through a proxy. This does not allow me access to blogger, social networks and anything with flash. You are saved of course.
It makes no sense for some troll to come and publish political comments when the topic at issue DesdeLinux is another.
By the way, a doubt:
Do you access the submarine cable from Cuba through CANTV in Venezuela or do you continue to use the old connectivity via satellite?
No idea, for now there is still no internet in homes or cell phones, there are no ISPs that provide services like this. If satellite or cable is used, there is no way to know.
Well, in my particular case, at my university they have begun to block some Linux sites, this in order that at the time of exams they do not cheat looking for something that should be studied with time, although it is temporary, they do not always realize it unless that you are stuck to the site like crazy 😛
They also block social and related networks but it is (as we say here) «another matter of course»
Has it ever occurred to you to put an address .onion? The truth is that these types of addresses are mainly accessed to ensure the confidentiality of where they are accessed (as in the case of Silk Road, which well annulled one .onion address and created another).
And, as diazepan said, the site must be restricted to be able to access via TOR. The truth is that neither my website nor this one are really of interest to an agency (NSA) that pretends to ventriloquist our lives.
The thing about the NSA and etc was a joke 🙂
Well, the .onion address was also a joke. Nobody in their right mind would launch their website on the TOR network unless they want to publish material that the normal website does not want to support.
You may have edited it as a joke but I, in particular, would not take it that way.
But equally users who do not use Tor can openly say what they think, so the problem would remain the same, or am I wrong?
I understand your concern and I believe that none of us, who follow and collaborate with the blog, would like them to close the site for reasons that have nothing to do with the subject of Free Software.
I don't use TOR for anonymous browsing. I hardly use it to search for cracking techniques (like the mythical Geohot technique), but nothing else.
If Facebook had an .onion address, it would just be a good taste of Zuckerberg.
I suppose it is different, because they could prove that the IP is not from Cuba etc….
We don't like censorship, believe me ... no one understands the right to freedom of expression better than Cubans, but many times the government (be it here in Cuba or another country) first close, restrict, and then ask ... come on, a metaphor the tone would be: "first shoot and then ask."
That is why we always try to take care of ourselves as much as possible, this is a Free Software site, defecation in the ancestors of the leaders of a certain country is not the case here 😉
Regarding the first thing you tell me, in reality the problem would not continue. When someone from here Cuba wants to fuck other Cubans like elav or me (as strange as it may seem, it is VERY possible, we live it day by day) but they can no longer remain anonymous, that is, we already know their real IP ... their ISP, agency to which it belongs, when that troll cannot guarantee his anonymity, he simply does not bother, he realizes that his neck is in danger 😀
Then that measure will only serve you for those who live in Cuba. It seems insufficient to me.
Sure, now I understand. So they're just trolling anonymously.
But there is something I don't understand: suppose someone without using a Tor network starts making these "spam comments". How do they know your real IP?
Because at least in my case, I do not have a "unique" IP but my Internet provider depends on another larger provider and when you look at my IP, you see that provider's. What I mean is that perhaps in some regions, blocking an IP will affect other users who have nothing to do with it.
Another drastic option would be to only allow comments from registered users, but personally I don't like it, because you cannot force anyone to register to give their casual opinion in a post.
Anyway, it's a great debate.
It is also worth wondering how often these comments occur.
It is also worth noting that I wrote a post about Cuba and the political comments I received (which were many) were not anti-Castro but anti-Yankee.
I made a post, I wanted to say ..
Of the antihypocrites, zero.
Totally agree ... that going around using the Tor to access the blog is a cowardice of whoever has done it, whoever wants to speak or protest to go to the right place ... nothing to be taking the blog for that ...
Let what is necessary be done to keep the blog open and at the service of those interested in free software... take care... It doesn't seem bad to me (it's my point of view), I don't see it as indiscriminate censorship. After all, I agree with what you say "However, DesdeLinux It is not a site that is under the surveillance of the NSA, FBI or aliens from Jupiter :D »»
Greetings.
Exactly, neither elav, let's use linux nor I are going to use some user's data, try to access their bank accounts in Switzerland, much less LOL !, even more impossible is the idea that the NSA or the FBI asks us for someone's data ... done… if they are going to ask for data, they would be mine or elav… O_O… run men run !!!!!
And they could not use this same comment system, but do a review of them before being published? … Maybe it's a lot of work.
Like if the page is not banned anywhere, why enter it from tor, but just to "barde" ... but at the same time not allow "anonymity" I do not see it as good ... maybe add a captcha? (the captcha come out in Tor? if they don't come out, then they already have a tip)
The comments are always reviewed but they already skipped the akismet filter once, that's why I put up this post to ask, reach a consensus. I agree with you, not allowing anonymity is not a good thing, but I also wonder, why do they want to hide their IP on DesdeLinux when that data is not even public?
The truth is that I do not see it necessary.
If someone comes in and says a stupid thing, then their comment is deleted and that's it.
What gets heavy? To spam and that IP and / or mail is over. From now on, the antispam filter will be in charge of blocking it.
I don't know what filter you use, but for example akismet has to configure that certain words in a comment make it remain in moderation until an administrator reviews it.
And a couple of questions:
1 - What problem can there be in criticizing the government?
Injuries, lies and disqualifications no, but criticism, even if it is harsh, what problems can it cause?
I say this because for years I have read many Cuban blogs made from Cuba (by Tyrians and Trojans) and there are those in which everything is said and allowed to be said. Absolutely everything.
Here in Spain it is legislated, and there are firm judgments for it, that EVERYTHING that appears on a website is the responsibility of its administrators. Comments included. PE the case of Ramoncín (a celebrity) and alasbarricadas (an anarchist website)
2 - Is there any legislation in Cuba in this regard in the area of the Internet?
Regarding question 1, yes, here there are people who have made blogs openly criticizing the system and its leaders, but ... you do not want to see the 'fire' that the government has open to them, it does not let them practically live, nor elav nor do I want to be included in that list 😉
Regarding the 2, there is no legislation here because ... it is not even considered as something legal that elav and I have a site hosted on a server in another country, not even that is contemplated as legal or allowed by law from here.
Fuck you, I'll use tor when I get out of there.
Lol, I thought you were dead XD
This is not the real Courage.
Indeed, I already checked it with 'my methods' of the oldtimes 😀
They were not necessary. Just hovering over was enough (the real one appears as "editor" and not as "user", plus it uses Gravatar).
Welcome Courage. Nice to meet you.
PS: By the way, your copyleft Metal music is excellent.
This is not the original Courage, this is a Chinese copy 😀
Shut up giggle and stop bothering
You made 2 mistakes in this comment:
1. Shut up without an accent, take a accent in the á
2. Call me 'carcamal' without being the real Courage 😉 (the real Courage would have known the above)
You have an email in your inbox ^ _ ^
Ah I did not know. And by the way, in the same WordPress you have the option of being able to see the emails, besides that that Courage is not the legitimate one (and by the way, the real one has Gravatar and an account on wordpress.com and I answered because I wanted to see if it really responded {very good troll, but the Gravatar was missing}).
1. Shut up without an accent, take a accent in the á
unless you are from the River Plate ...
In Muy Linux there is a «Courage»
http://www.muylinux.com/2013/11/12/curiosidades-ubuntu/
@ Iván Molina:
That Courage has just been registered with Disqus, and continues with the "i hate Ubuntu" pattern.
That troll is not worth listening to.
PS: Oh look! The Iván Molina who wrote that comment is not the original, he is also an impostor! OUT, CATFISH !!
Catfish? Where?!
@ eliotime3000
I understand that PD is a joke, right?
@ Iván Molina:
In itself, it was a joke.
"The repentant dog returns,
with their looks so tender,
with a split snout
and the tail between the legs ... "
El Chavo is back.
Hello, it seems to me that the problem here is not if someone accesses by hiding or showing their IP, but rather it seems to me that it passes through the first side of respect and second of education. Respect in the first place since if I access a page where computing is discussed, the appropriate thing is to make comments according to the place, that is why people are called here and this is what interests us, those of us who enter, and above all respect for those who with their effort keep this page working. Education in the second place because I think that no one escapes that politics is a topic that is not talked about anywhere, everyone has their ideology and they are all valid, I suppose there will be forums for these issues and it would be ideal for them to go there Those who want to talk about politics, here we are interested in Linux and free systems.
Finally, the one who speaks hiding is the same as not saying anything since there is no one to respond to. Regards.
Yes I completely agree with you, but precisely respect, education (and other positive qualities) are those that there are not many here, and yes dozens of negative qualities 🙁
KZKG ^ Gaara, I think the best filter that can be applied to people who are ill-mannered and irritating is indifference, on the part of both administrators and those of us who usually walk through this blog that we love so much. Those who are interested in generating discord will always find a way to spread their negative ideas, the important thing is that no one echo them.
Filtering by browser, by IP or by any automatic means will cause someone to pay for the sins of others and that is not fair.
Let's try to add and not to subtract more than anything in quality. Regards.
And is it not easier to put an automatic filter that blocks certain words?
Yes it is definitely easier, but the filter would automatically SPAM comments that contain a matching word, maybe some useful comments that were unlucky enough to put a word like "castro" or something like that would escape. It is not a 100% accurate method.
Let's see, here we are computer scientists, because to solve it as such, I would start by identifying the problem
Is the problem access from a certain range of IPs? NO, because not all those who connect through these proxies come to comment nonsense, and would pay just for sinners.
Is the problem the content of some messages? YES
So what must be filtered is the content, for this there are several ways.
Broadly speaking, we can divide them into 2 methodologies.
1. Strict (Everything is forbidden if not explicitly allowed)
All messages are reviewed according to the rules * before making them public, only duly registered users can comment.
Pros:
-Does not pass any spam messages
Cons:
-It takes a lot of work to moderate the messages one by one.
-Messages take time to be published
-not everyone is willing to register
2. Permissive (Everything is allowed if not explicitly prohibited)
Messages are published instantly and only those that do not comply with the rules are moderated *
Different filters can be applied, such as automating the detection of specific words, but the one that I like the most is to put a button / link to report the comment.
After x reports, the comment is hidden until moderation, once it is republished by the moderator, the option to report no longer appears
Pros:
-The work is divided between all users so it is little.
-There is always someone online and annoying messages will not last long.
-The freedom of expression of all is respected.
-The righteous do not pay for sinners.
Cons:
-If there is no plugin for your cms, it would have to be programmed.
* Both methodologies require a series of rules, which preferably are visible to all users and which specify which issues or attitudes go against the site's policies.
Ex.
-Offending groups or individuals for any reason, especially ethnic, race, religion, politics ...
-SPAM
- Intentional flames
Excellent proposal and rationing, it seems to me the best.
Greetings.
I agree, most of those who surf from TOR do it to maintain their anonymity, their privacy, why restrict everyone by one?
In my opinion, we should all use TOR, it is a good way not to give away our precious privacy to anyone.
Excellent 😉
It seems to me the best solution.
I fully understand what you comment in the post and I see it very reasonable. However, I think it is essential that a website that supports the SL is committed to freedom.
In my opinion, I think the best thing would be to first try an alternative solution like the one set out above and if it doesn't work, you will adopt more radical measures like the one you discuss in the post.
I see that there are some comments that you bet on freedom and do not censor. And I'm going to try to emphasize a couple of things, which in my opinion should be taken into account:
- Freedom is not going to do what you want without looking for anyone.
- Freedom of expression does not imply shouting from the rooftops your opinions even if they are irrelevant or have nothing to do with the blog's topic.
These would be the definitions that the users described by KZKG^Gaara are not taking into account, since there is the possibility of putting administrators at risk with those comments. You can comment openly, but you must adopt attitudes of respect and commitment to the blog and the people behind it. DesdeLinux It is a very beautiful project, and we must fight to preserve it. I think we all agree on that.
Obviously, I would love for these things to not happen, and for people to be more respectful and considerate. But what should not be allowed is that those opinions outside the theme of the blog put the blog in a bind / compromise, or even, and this is the most serious, administrators.
A greeting!
It is precisely what I say, many criticize that freedom of expression is limited, but that term implies taking responsibility for what is said, otherwise, anyone throws the stone and hides his hand, freedom is also having responsibility , so you don't really lose the idea of it.
Greetings.
That is why the guidelines are set, making the rules for posting public, whoever does not follow them does not have the right to have their comments remain, I do not see anything that does not respect freedom or anything that gives it another meaning.
That's right, to which I add Is it necessary to access this site using TOR? I do not think so. Some in their workplaces may have some limitations, but unfortunately, we cannot sacrifice our work, our effort for a few.
And much less, for a son of a great whore, who does not have the balls to stand in front of those who run the Government and tell them the things that he puts here, knowing that it can affect us. In fact, that's why it does it.
So please, I hope you understand.
I do not see Tor as effective. You may slow an individual but they can touch your nose from outside the country. You need an automatic filter that sends suspicious messages in moderation. Comments that include certain "keywords" should be held until approved by a moderator.
Just as they complain about the problems inherent to living in their country, take into account what happens all over the world, and that there are places and situations in which just visiting this or another page in their country can generate problems for someone, so If for you it is not necessary to use TOR, maybe for another yes.
I know people who just for going to study or on vacation were denied visas for other nations.
Yes, obviously, as I said in other comments, the idea is not to close access and now, if that were the idea, we would not have created this topic. The intention is not to harm anyone, nor allow them to harm elav and me, that is why we ask for ideas, suggestions, feedback 🙂
Dear,
What if they make those who connect via the TOR network unable to comment?
I see it as a feasible solution (so you have the freedom to read the blog using TOR).
Some things would have to be reprogrammed, maybe a couple of patches, but if TOR has a specific ips range (I haven't found out about that, I've only used it a couple of times) it shouldn't be that complicated.
Regards!
It is a possibility that those who use Tor can GET the site but not POST, it is a good idea 😀
The IPs of the Tor nodes and proxies I have already had for days hehehe.
What if we put ourselves in the campaign, and we change to the domain page? Move her to Argentina, for example
Nooooooooo, in Argentina it's worse !!
SIBIOS, blocking leakymail.org, etc ...
No Argentina
And the .cu domain costs thousands of dollars a year.
How to change the page to Argentina? I did not understand 🙂
It does not refer to the page itself, but to the .net domain that they change to .com.ar (the .cu costs thousands of dollars a year).
Registering a domain in Argentina is FREE. So they might consider that a good option. The problem is paying for hosting, but registering a .com.ar domain is free. It is done on this page https://nic.ar/nic-argentina.xhtml
The problem is that there are already two domains registered as desdelinux.com.ar and usemoslinux.com.ar
So another name would have to be invented for the domain
If not, the other non-viable solution is to put "Report Comment" buttons, so the moderation becomes faster.
errata: the other viable solution is to put buttons….
to register a .com.ar domain you only need to reside in the country and enter the document number. So any Argentine moderator or editor could register it
How ugly to live in a world where to protect yourself you must implement censorship.
But that's the way things are, right?
Actually, we have not yet implemented any censorship, we are still in the feedback phase, ask, ask for opinions
Do what you can to protect yourself, and thank you for always asking the opinion of the community that you have created.
regards
Thank you for reading us.
And yes, obviously, I am not going to put restrictions just like that, obviously we will ask first, we will ask for opinions, suggestions
I think I would not like them to block people who use TOR because we do not know the reasons they could have for using it, although your situation I understand perfectly, if you must do it I think that is important above all, I do not know the situation in Cuba but if you really are In danger, do not hesitate to do it, if it is more out of paranoia then it should be considered because some users could understand it as censorship or disrespect for their rights.
I am the first who likes to use nicknames and not my real name (much less my last name), I am also a big fan of EVERYTHING that guarantees anonymity, but sometimes the intentions of others are not the best (as is the case I speak), in cases like this, anonymity is far from being an advantage, what creates us are problems 🙁
I assume that whoever uses a Tor network does it to be discreet, to go unnoticed. Any other use does not seem correct to me. Hiding to harm seems reprehensible to me.
Moreover, the purpose of this site is obvious. Who cares about anyone's political opinion, or if you have to be vegan, or if homeopathy should be science? I do not think censorship to focus the debate. This site promotes the opinion oriented to share useful knowledge and experiences in one sense, even if they are different or seem wrong to us.
As the classic said, there is no origin without destination. If the destination is to do harm, the source is not acceptable.
Personally, I use Tor very little, and when I do, I don't use it to access a site that I don't have or don't feel the need to hide anything from. Therefore, I am not opposed to blocking the connection through Tor to Desdelinux, even less if it is to help the site or you not have problems. Greetings.
Good
It seems to me that you are pointing in the wrong direction. The problem is that someone has put comments out of place using a Tor connection. The solution is not to block those who use Tor, but to moderate the comments.
I am intrigued by why they should block the IP just because it is from tor, there are those who browse tor only because in their work they block certain sites on the network such as facebook or youtube. Those who send these orders often tend to consider a drop in productivity and those who, in the face of such an event, get "Wasted", use the Tor network to access certain sites. Or at least that is one of the excuses that occur to me, but it is also true that a skilled person in computing has wanted to hack their servers and that I think would be a slight problem.
Hello,
It seems like a wrong decision to me. Free software and anonymity on the internet should go hand in hand. You are also enough to moderate the comments you consider. Regarding politics, I generally support the policy of Cuba.
It is a somewhat difficult subject ...
On the one hand, people who want to browse anonymously have every right. And not everyone who uses TOR does so with malicious intent. However, I think that, as you said, a free software blog is not the place to criticize about politics.
For my part, it is difficult to put myself in your situation, since I do not live in Cuba or run a website. I understand that managing the blog is time-consuming, and a human filter for posts is quite impossible, as no one likes to be anyone's police. And the issue of antispam filters do not know how fine they can be right.
Anyway, it is a detail that you allow us to express our opinion. Although my recommendation is that, at least in my case, many of us do not have the technical knowledge to assess the various options. Even with everything, getting selfish, the blog was created by elav and you, it is your names who are behind this, and you are the ones who answer for the blog in the face of any adversity. So do what you see fit. In my opinion, I don't think it's censorship, since this is your home.
I support freedom of expression and freedom itself, but having that freedom requires responsibility. And giving your opinion on a topic that is not related to the posts is not appropriate or responsible, as it is not the place to do it.
There is a phrase that would explain this very well: "Your freedom ends where the other's begins."
Greetings and sorry for the long writing.
I don't live in Cuba either, but more or less I understand the situation and for me it is something that should not be seen lightly, I mean, it is not wrong to use TOR, the wrong thing is how it is used.
Also, elav out there said that they could not sacrifice their work for that of another ********** who comments things out of place in this blog.
For my part I agree with him and when there are no more options to take, well, whatever it takes to take care of one's skin one (I mean the site and the two of them) and more because of comments from an anonymous.
According to you, a human filter is a problem more than a solution, it would slow down the debate, sharing would become tedious and impossible, and automatic filters are not 100% accurate, that is precisely why I created the topic, to listen opinions, suggestions, ideas, the idea is not to close access and that's it, nothing more ... the idea is to try to make everyone satisfied, not to harm anyone or allow them to harm elav and me.
Anyway, thank you very much for your comment, a pleasure to read it.
I think it's correct
I think this is my first comment here, and look, I've been reading you for a long time. My opinion is, given that this blog is a non-profit thing carried out altruistically by elav and etc, do what you decide and do better for you. This first. Secondly, it is you who live in Cuba (I live in Barcelona), you will know the Cuban political and legal situation better than I do. But, it occurs to me, and why not ask the authorities of the country? I suppose that it is easily distinguishable the news and others published by administrators and editors - over which there is control -, from the comments of the readers - uncontrollable by definition.
Then there would be a whole debate about whether comments really contribute something ever, not here, which maybe yes, but in general on the web. My opinion is that it is better sometimes if you do not agree with an article or if you want to add something, write something long, send it to the editors and if the quality is good, don't worry that it will be published as an article. Comments are generally a well-intentioned window open to participation, but taken advantage of by trolls and extremists of all stripes. In Cuba I don't know, here I do.
But returning to the subject at hand, my opinion is, I repeat, the initial one, what is best for administrators and editors. Just missing.
It seems appropriate 😀
I think your position is not only valid, but I support the idea of preventing access from Tor.
Now, if it is an anonymous browsing, how do you do it__
I particularly must acknowledge and thank the technical work that they do because it is very good, their technical articles are excellent, however I must clarify that the only thing I regret is these types of articles, that it is not the first time that I read, they are complaining articles, even to level of gossip telling that someone did, someone said, someone impersonated me ... I consider that as administrators they should do what is best for the blog, but avoid this type of article, I swear to you, only in this blog I read, and at least I follow another 20 linux themes.
A hug greetings.
Well, we are a community site, a community, so asking for help, asking the community their opinion about a certain restriction measure, do you see it as something negative?
Thanks for what you say about our technical articles.
Like Elav and KZKG ^ Gaara, I am also Cuban, therefore I understand perfectly what they mean by protecting themselves from possible comments (which by the way in my opinion is more than out of place) I agree to take action about that "freedom" that they both advocate having in countries other than mine, but at least when I enter a site related to SWL, I only hope I have things related to that, or is it that we now have for the mere fact of living in a country, have a religion, or like some kind of music having to put up with someone coming, who does not have the courage to show his green face (or IP address) to put comments out of place and that can harm the ethics of the blog that costs so much work keep in the preference of all of us?
Anyone who wants to talk about politics to go to the UN or some place of those here, we only want things from SWL.
I applaud the ability of the staff to consult with the community on the steps they plan to take and you know…. count on me to move on.
Given that my opinion is requested, I will write it.
Both you, KZKG, and elav edit really interesting articles. It is possible that the style at the time of writing is different, and even the way of exposing them has nothing to do with each other, but ultimately, both are an invaluable contribution to all of us who feel interested in free software.
Pouring political comments on a computer blog is not acceptable whether TOR is used or not, especially when the stability of a blog is endangered that, today, to me, in particular, seems extraordinarily good and I would regret that for fault of someone ill-intentioned, as in this case this whole project could be ruined.
I am editing from Spain where, apparently, there is freedom of expression but in many cases and when dealing with certain topics we could find certain pacts of silence or topics that are not, let's say, adequate, or that do not interest, which in itself does not stop being more than a previous censorship. I could give some examples but it would not be interesting since this is not a blog dedicated to politics.
Finally, I affirm that the Cuban people are very loved, respected and admired by the Spaniards and that only Cubans should choose their destiny but that it would be a shame if a blog like this one where a lot of things are learned and taught was closed for a nonsense that, when we visit it, it comes in handy.
Well I got tired of reading so many comments, I'm going to be very blunt, as I have always been with you regarding blog topics.
Remember when we found that this was not a democracy? There were several of us that day, and we agreed that if it was necessary to do something abrupt to avoid things as serious as the closing of the blog, then let it be done and that if someone itches then they should scratch.
Staff proposed something interesting but it has more cons than it put, and in fact only "programming" it is not its only cons, anyone who does not like a comment will mark it wrong and that generates a chain reaction that makes other sheep do the same, therefore we fall into the same miasma of having to moderate unnecessarily just because something did not seem to a troll or an intolerant, and they will excuse me but DL is not the one of those glory days in the that everyone got along, now we have a meager concentration of crap in the form of users, and don't screw me anymore with that little topic.
I myself have sent the horn many political comments, of all imaginable kinds, for and against my convictions and all for the simple fact that it is not allowed and period, here you are "free" until you screw it up, in the moment in which you leave the suit with the rules, we leave the suit with you, that's the way it should be.
So, you can block any access from TOR (if you can, I'm not good there) or we can increase the restrictions of who can and cannot comment, basically if you do not have more than (what do I know, let's say an example) more than 100 comments approved and you are registered, you will not comment freely ... point in mouth on my part.
Programming it is a problem if the plugin for wordpress does not already exist.
»Anyone who does not like a comment will mark it wrong and that generates a chain reaction that makes other sheep do the same,»
That is another problem other than TOR, and as such it also has solutions, I actually put some things that would help to avoid that, such as setting the rules of what is allowed and not, so the one who reports correct things can also have a sanction, and once moderate it can no longer be reported.
haha, do you forget that I'm the one you're talking about? … Come on, I repeat, it's me LOL !! Of course I can block whatever I want 😀
The truth is that I prefer not to get too involved in politics or make so much derision. As I mentioned in the previous comment I made, the need to be anonymous is important, but do not make them paranoid either.
Another thing; using Akismet, Mollom and / or any antispam program is not enough. A user is also required to know how to distinguish spam from a sarcastic comment, as well as having a mature mentality.
Seeing that the real Courage is here, I have welcomed him (even if he is a troll, he is an old acquaintance who is often quite blunt with his answers). The good thing about this blog is that, although there are already a certain number of trolls, there is always an excellent atmosphere to be able to be comfortable with everyone.
Another thing: many blogs use Disqus, but the truth is that I see it really full of bugs and trolls (especially, coming from Jaidefinichon who treat Disqus as if it were 4chan or something similar).
I see it bad at first, because the other day without going any further I could only access the site through TOR, because the proxy had not yet updated the address ... But since it was temporary, if it is for security, do what you have to do while they don't mess with port 80 xD
Exactly, attacking the underlying problem will always be better, and the TOR network is not the problem.
Okay, Tor is NOT the problem, but at first glance it was the solution or 'problem' that I identified, repeat, at first glance. That is why I created this post, to learn about other ideas, other points of view.
Hello to the staff, I have already moved house… here I am again.
From my point of view the issue is very simple.
Here I read many respectable opinions, but ...
Who is in Cuba? Well fear is free (it's a cliché), or prudence, or common sense ...
If because of a troll bullshit, they will close this great page. In which many others and me. We gave our money to make it work quickly, how is it going now ...
Well, if the administrators say that it is convenient, then it is convenient, that for that they are on the ground.
And by the way, half joking, half laughing. But it is already known that the NSA has all my google chrome and yahoo passwords in Big Data in case you need to consult them and that it monitors any SLL and RSA traffic without problems. It was published by the newspaper el mundo a few days ago. Protecting himself in his national security, he feels entitled to spy on any communication from the globe. Which doesn't keep me awake either, since I don't do anything illegal. Of course, from there to spying on foreign companies to favor American companies there is a step. But hey, this is a linux forum.
conclusion: close the TOR network and cheers to the NSA guys who are reading me.
"Respect for the Rights of Others is Peace." Benito Juarez
We must not take into consideration those who do not respect our right to Peace. We are Linuxeros peacefully dedicated, with a lot of effort, work, fighting against difficulties, and with Nalgas Years -not hours / buttocks- to the subject of Free Software.
We must not allow anyone to disturb our peace, unless we break it ourselves with the damned flameware.
If we invite EVERYONE who wants to comment, write, and learn Free Software.
I support any measure deemed appropriate by Mr. Elav and KZKG ^ Gaara, to guarantee the tranquility of this blog.
As someone said out there in the comments, create a filter or rule that what comes from the TOR network goes through inspection first and then if it does not have anything that affects the blog or related then publish said comment or opinion
So far, the most balanced proposal is that of jpsilvaa, which proposes not allowing comments to those who connect via TOR, it remains to be seen if its implementation is possible from a technical point of view; This way, the blog would be open to reading for those who at some point are forced to access it anonymously, but it would prevent anonymity from being used to troll or try to harm.
I applaud for making the decision so forcefully. Protect yourself from people who enter anonymously without any justification, saying things that can cause you problems, and it seems to me the most correct.
How about, I do not see any inconvenience, it is only a consultation page. I see no reason why it has to be accessed from a TOR network.
Cheers; In any case, it would be best to moderate before publishing the comments and, as they say, send them to spam. If the only solution is to restrict Tor then so be it, I think the blog is very important to run the risk of losing it and that you have negative consequences.
See you soon.
One of the first things that impressed me about this world of free software is the immense amount of people who contribute good things to improve the lives of others, in a selfless way. From those who create the distros that we enjoy, those who translate, package, distribute and in a very special way those who share their experiences and knowledge in this type of publication, just with the intention of helping. The truth is that without you bloggers and others, many of the users might have failed in our adventure of using GNU-Linux.
The least they deserve besides our thanks is respect. It seems to me that anyone who abuses the generosity of those who illustrate us should be put aside, not be taken into account because they are polluting characters.
The truth is that I don't agree and I'll tell you why. Desdelinux.net is not a site that is under surveillance by the NSA? Well, let's see, from now on, the hosting is Argentine, but the servers are in the USA, or is 69.61.93.35 from Russia?
To deprive a person of the right to anonymity / privacy, I think it is to deprive a right, the same as Cuba does with those who raise their voices against it, it is not necessary for me to elaborate on the subject because you know it and I also because reasons that are irrelevant.
For me the best solution is what I do, moderate the comments, that is, they are published when I give the ok, every day I take the trouble to see them and publish them and those that are spam or data defamation, I delete them Now, that would lose the interactivity of the commenters, and well, everything cannot be done, but, blocking TOR IPs, first of all, it seems to me to take away a freedom (freenode does not block them, it only has one server dedicated for bullfighters and you must have an account, for example.) and in addition to that, not only TOR is a way to hide an IP, there are the neighbor's wifi, the cybercafe and even fresh proxy for http that are easier to get than the socks5, therefore, I think blocking TOR is going to be seen as a challenge for commenters to fuck around and urge you to up the ante.
Regards, SynFlag
The NSA thing is a joke, but going back to the original idea, what reason could you have for entering? Desdelinux from TOR?, unless you are snowden... then it seems to me that the probability of you posting an out-of-place comment is 98% since you feel like "superman" because you are anonymous.
It is a very complicated issue, but I say, if the person who wants to post something out of place has balls, he will say it even if he is totally identifiable, that of playing at being anonymous via tor shielding himself in a supposed freedom, is cowardly. I am one of those who think that it is not bad that they identify me, in the end the opinions are mine and not of a pseudo alias float out there
You give him, that freedom is a right, but with a great comes a great responsibility (Ben Parker). As they say, it is not a political forum, and I do not believe that anonymity is necessary to be able to write here or exercise freedom of expression.
In a post like this, I think scorers like YouTube's "thumbs up or down" or MuyLinux would help. So we can see how much for or against is with a post or cementaries.
The downside of thumbs or positive / negative votes is that trolls are always going to attack, taking advantage of their anonymity. So far, I don't know of any way to limit those votes only to registered users, but for now, it is not recommended. It has already happened with YouTube, which has had to put the G + comments because the ones that YouTube had were bad (those of Disqus, not to mention because there are times that are filled with negatives for no reason).
I understand the problem you mention in the post, but I think it would be a mistake.
I would look for another solution. We must support projects like TOR and yes DesdeLinux Not allowing you to enter with TOR is like not giving you support.
You have to understand that TOR is a very necessary tool for activists around the world. That someone use it other than the correct one does not make the tool not good.
Likewise, I don't understand why we ask ourselves whether or not it is necessary to use TOR to enter the DesdeLinux, just because you don't use it doesn't mean that others don't.
An activist does not turn activism mode "ON". Can't you do what you think is necessary to fight something you don't think is fair and look at a linux blog?
Do you have to put the "OFF" mode?
Maybe not leaving is a solution ...
Hello!
For me it would not be correct to block users by Tor. Yes, I think it's fine if they block comments that may cause them political problems because it is quite a serious matter, it is not, in their case, only about 'political opinions' (and I am not against their government or the historical struggle of the people Cuban).
Why use Tor to access DL? Wanting to have privacy is reason enough and the only ones who can criticize that are the intelligence services and the companies that live off your data.
Please find another solution.
Hello KZKG ^ Gaara, in my opinion I do not see it wrong, if in this case as you indicate it can cause problems it is quite logical that they want to take care of their backs, another particular, I am a reader of your site and I like it a lot for its very good informative level , I see no reason to have to access in such a way (unless it is for proxies or reasons of that nature). Regards.
If you don't owe it, you don't fear it, whatever position we have we must sign with our own handwriting, that's what I think