On the secrets, Ubuntu and Mark… the review.

Well this time I'm going to have to redo all the work, not in a bad way, but in a good way.

Many people wanted to correct me in the last article, several were right, and although after reading everything I read, analyzing it and realizing that yes, on several points I was wrong, my opinion remains the same.

Ok, starting with all of this I clarify to everyone that Canonical will not shut down Ubuntu development And that, the troll or hater comments are not going to go beyond the moderation grid, just so they don't come later and tell us that we are shit.

This cleared up, let's get started.

What does Mark Shuttleworth mean?

Well, nothing, one of the things that Mark asks in his blog article is that you do not have to be carried away by people's comments, and he is right on that point. Here I can touch on two important things:

  • That paying attention to what everyone says without you making your own judgment is always a bad idea.

A perfect example of that is how badly many people talk about Unity without having tried it or having tried it half, that if a day or two and that's it. This has undoubtedly brought a lot of bad fame to the desktop environment that, although it has its cons (like all) it is not the serpent that tempted Adam and Eve.

  • Haters gonna hate.

Ubuntu has both Fanboys and Haters, both sides cracked by what they think and there is no way to get the reason for their worship / hate out of their heads. Perhaps this is what Shuttleworth meant when he spoke of "Avoid criticism". certainly the fanatical criticisms (both from one side and the other) are, without a doubt, an error where you see it, it does not matter that they have valid points; bias does not fit into these discussions.

What do you really mean by keeping a secret?

We now fall into what creates the controversy, the phrase "Keep secret". The recently generated popular belief lies in: "They will close the code"; nothing is further from reality, they will not close anything.

The next trend is to think: "They will not show anything in the Betas or in the Alphas and when they release the final product it will be a disaster". It is partly true, apparently they are not going to put it in Betas and / or Alphas, but, apparently (this is not mentioned but in the comments of the post) they are going to work with PPA's, first they are going to offer closed tests of X module of the program and after being tested by several developers (both from Canonical and prominent from the community) they will release that code through PPA's so that whoever wants to, can put their hand.

Regarding this Mark says:

Every member of a community works on personal projects. Our competitors do so too. There are any number of changes thrust upon Gnome by Red Hat for example, that then get whitewashed as “maintainers discretion” or “designers design”. There are any number of reveals, prototypes, patents and other decisions that are taken in private, by all members of all communities. Even amongst volunteers its normal to see someone saying “I've been hacking on this for a while, now I want some feedback”.

What translated with my terrible English would be something like:

All members of any community work on personal projects. Our competitors do the same. There are a large number of changes imposed on Gnome by Red Hat, for example, which are later labeled well as "Discretion of maintainers" as "Designers Design". There are many prototypes, patents and decisions that are made in secret in all communities, even voluntary community members happen to say "Hey, I've been working on this for a while and now I want some feedback."

Although there is a certain reason in what he says, since many times we who develop anything, first do something in secret and then we release it, it seems to me that they are two totally different contexts; or at least differentiated.

First of all, I, as a developer, have barely any capacity compared to Canonical, I don't have to be held accountable to anyone nor do I have really big projects used by hundreds of thousands on my hands. Neither can I, as an independent developer, come running like a moron warning that Hey! I'm starting to program something, and I get 100 lines that don't do anything, that don't work, but here they are = D »

Canonical for example, as a company, you can do two things:

Announcing the idea and showing it as a potential project without really committing to anything, kind "This is something that has occurred to us, what do you think?" or; do what they say, start in secret, then free up puzzle pieces. The second is not bad at all as long as it remains as mentioned with the PPA's, if not, I am sorry, it is not worth it.

Interesting comments

It should also be added that there are several really interesting comments in the post, both in favor and against and neutral.

For example, many are directed to what Makr says:

Canonical has been a standard when it comes to transparent development.

Or something like that, remember that my English is not masterful.

A couple of comments that he received regarding that (and that I will not translate, which is extended to me) are:

You seem to have forgot your roots, Debian people were the one that set the standard for transparency, not Ubuntu. Heck, even mandriva was transparent at that time, with people from the outside (me) being able to manage the build cluster (something that Canonical still doesn't provide, while Fedora, Mageia, Debian does).

And this one too:

Mr. Shuttleworth, how can you claim that Ubuntu set the standard for transparency when it is derived from Debian? Debian allows anyone to contribute and develops improvements entirely in the open in contrast to Canonical projects such as Ubuntu for Android. Gentoo is the same way.

If you are serious about transparency, why not develop Ubuntu for Android and any other projects that Canonical announces in a public repository? I think that the Cyanogenmod project would appreciate it.

There are also those who support it and who, in turn, raise reasonable doubts, like this one, with which I feel identified:

I think with this move Ubuntu actually is going to be more open that it was at least last 1 or 2 years where a lot of development was done in house (at Canonical) and than made public only a couple of days before the features freeze.
In this way community (the ones that have shown commitment) will be involved.

My concerns (if I can call them concerns) here are:
Who decides which members of the community have shown commitment enough to participate on these projects.
And how community members can apply to work in this “secret projects” if they don't know what projects are there. (If they will know than the projects are not any more "secret")

Any how as I sad it is a good move. At least better than it was last years.
In the end of the day I don't mind how does the development of the feature but more I care for the feature itself.

Where it is possible to rescue the concerns of this user, who raises:

  • Who decides which community members apply as suitable to participate in these projects?
  • How will the community be able to apply for these projects and / or use them if they are "Secrets" and they don't know anything about them?

There are quite a few comments to read but to be honest with you, I do not intend to break down the entire post by Mark Shuttleworth, far from it.

My opinion still does not change too much, I am not yet completely convinced nor do I feel comfortable with these decisions since, to be honest, for me there are still many loose ends that must be tied up. Time will tell if all this is a good or bad idea, beyond any comment that Canonical knows what it does or not, that problem has been theirs, and they will know what or who does or does not work in that company.

I believe that this is enough to calm the concerns of many and to dismiss any argument that I am not consulting the correct sources. From now on, I think that any comment or criticism should be about my interpretation of the sources, which is already something very personal.

Source: Mark Shuttleworth Blog

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  1.   Phytoschido said

    How good that you rectified, the only thing that the post previous preached was FUD.

  2.   fredy said

    Save Ubuntu and Xubuntu and now Lubuntu hehe.

  3.   jorgemanjarrezlerma said

    How about Nano.

    You are right in everything you argue and like you I think that there are some details that to put it in some way (and without offending or offending to create controversy) do not end up curdling many.

    1.    dwarf said

      Well, the previous post lacked objectivity and I could not put the correct arguments on the table, although I remain in my position that no matter how they decorate it, I do not buy it.

  4.   jamin samuel said

    I think they are doing well ...

    Look at the example that Linux Mint is taking. They never release betas or alphas .. they only show possible ideas of what they "probably" can include in their next release ..

    You never know how the new Cinnamon will come until you try it ... But it can be tested using PPAs ... That philosophy is not bad, that avoids criticism.

    1.    DanielC said

      Man, is that Mint practically does not develop any OS, it takes everything from Ubuntu or Debian for its LMDE and polishes it by mounting it in a DE and adding some codecs and PPAs, period.
      And in terms of desktops there is not much to do with any when it comes out (call KDE, GNOME, XFCE, etc), except that you throw yourself on your own, because nowhere are you going to find Alphas or Betas of the DE (that is, you will never see Ubuntu on an LTS with an unstable version of Unity, or Debian and Fedora take risks with Gnome 3.6 at the moment, or Arch the same, etc), only the operating systems.

      1.    elav said

        Do not see it from that point of view either, because ultimately, what would Ubuntu be without Debian? Mint has its own applications as Ubuntu does. The philosophy is: If it is there, I use it, if it is there and it does not work for me, I modify it, and if it is not there, I add it.

      2.    KZKG ^ Gaara said

        Man, is that Mint practically does not develop any SO


        1.    elav said

          KZKG ^ Gaara: MintBackup, MintNany, and the rest of the Mint Tools. Cinnamon, your own Update Manager, your own Control Center Isn't that developing? Well, tell me what is it for you to develop then .. ¬¬

          1.    Anonymous said

            Now I remember that when I used Mint the only tool I didn't like was MintUpload, the rest made my life very easy, haha.

  5.   Diego said

    SinceLinux is a tall, constructive and pedagogical blog, but whenever I read Nano's articles and the responses it gives to the comments of some readers it is mistreating them, telling them that they are trolls, almost that they are idiots. I understand that Nano is someone very important in this Linux space, but it is always good that the creators of this great blog, tell Nano, to control himself.

  6.   Yoyo Fernandez said

    Very good entry, that's writing and not the shit that I do.

    PS: Nano, how you mistreat me I trolled you forever and ever ...

    1.    KZKG ^ Gaara said


  7.   Nano said

    Let's see to see. Yes, they have already told me to tone it down, but if I'm still here it's for something, right?

    It is not the first time that I have been criticized for how I express myself and I am sure it is not the last because, here with us, I do not intend to change it.

    The thing is that it is not the first time that a funny person wants to mount trolls and that when their comments are discarded, they get upset.

    Another thing is worth noting too, and that is that many users are too .... "Sensitive" and anything alludes to them, without offending but you are an example, because I do not mention names or say an idiot to anyone, I only say that those who feel that "impulse of idiocy" avoid trolling that occurs when we least expect it (I I include).

    I do not intend to apologize because I am not trying to offend anyone nor will I stop expressing myself as I do because this has always been my way of being.

    I clarify that no, I am not bothered by the criticisms although I think I disliked that they make them in the comments and divert rl items, for that there is an email from the blog and in any case, a forum.

    1.    KZKG ^ Gaara said

      Let's see.
      The problem is that if you were just another user of the site, it didn't matter if you were abrupt or too crude or direct, but since you are an administrator here, it is expected that you have more courage, that you can overcome destructive criticism WITHOUT attacking the user.

      How many times have you seen that I have directly attacked a user?

      This is what I think everyone is referring to.

      You should not call any user a troll, even when they have made a not-so-pleasant comment, as a comment does not define if they are troll or not ...

      The logic is simple.
      You are part of DesdeLinux like everyone else because you are a user here, but you are the picture From FromLinux because you are an administrator of several services, not just the blog, is that understood?

  8.   Hyuuga_Neji said

    It is not for trolling but I second Nano… each one should be as they please and if someone shares with me the opinion that Canonical should drop the idea of ​​"leaving the community out" I should say so. Now surely some UbuntuFanBoy comes to claim that Canonical does not owe explanations to anyone hehe

    1.    KZKG ^ Gaara said

      I did not mean to stop exercising one's own criteria, to not give an opinion ... I did NOT mean that, I was referring to the way in which readers are answered several times.

      1.    dwarf said

        Nor do I want to be misunderstood. I have treated the users badly, but you know well that those I treated that way was not because they were sheep.

        I have never disrespected any user without him having provoked me at least a couple of times and even so they have been non-vulgar offenses.You more than anyone knows that there always has to be a figure with a rough personality and in this case I am me.

        Another thing, I am not and will not be Courage, he does not have a strong personality, he simply does not know how to measure his language, which are two different things.

        Anyway, in this article I am not offending anyone and asking that they are not trolls, even in the way I asked, is not an offense.

  9.   milky28 said

    You should not drown in a glass of water if in the end you do not like Ubuntu there are other distro, so you do not have to think either right or wrong if it benefits you as a great user but if you feel that the community is going to become very closed in secret Look for another there are millions in which you can participate either little or a lot of your knowledge.

  10.   EAT WITH said

    The truth is that you are right that Ubuntu has fanboys, and the same with Mint. But what doesn't seem fair to me is that you pretend every Ubuntu or Mint user is a fanboy. I use Mint, and I'm reconsidering giving Ubuntu another try, I don't know why, but it has something I like. And that's not why I'm a fanboy ... I'm a defender of RPM, especially Fedora, because it seems to me one of the most robust distros that exist today, but I'm going to wait until the end of the year for the 18 to come out to install it , surely.
    Mint with MATE is stable and great in my opinion. Cinnamon may not be that stable, but I love it. With LMDE I have little experience, but I think that to use LMDE I use Debian, although "pure" Debian I don't like it haha
    Just that, I hope that if at the end I alternate Mint with Ubuntu you don't treat me like a fanboy, because I'm not, I try to be impartial ... In fact, every day I change my tastes, so it's impossible for me to be a fanboy or hater hahaha
    ~ comecon

    1.    EAT WITH said

      Sorry for the linguistic terrorism, where I put "in fact" is "in fact" !!!

      1.    jamin samuel said

        Quiet ... In fact MInt is like using ubuntu but with everything almost done 😉

        And of course, fedora is spectacular

        1.    EAT WITH said

          I don't really use it for ease or anything. I actually like to 'get my hands dirty' like with Arch haha
          Basically I use Mint for Cinnamon, which I find a better shell for GNOME 3 than GNOME Shell or Unity, although I quite like all three.

          1.    jamin samuel said

            That's right ... Cinnamon is a good shell .. in fact it can be installed in Fedora and it runs fine .. The only thing I have not been able to achieve is to install the Artwork of Mint to Cinnamon being in other distros, apparently the only way to enjoy that artwork is being in Mint; (

    2.    Anonymous said

      In case you didn't notice, the same author of the article uses Ubuntu.
      There are fans for everything, in all flavors, colors and sizes. If you are going to use or stop using something for that reason, you will never find something that is free.

      Cinnamon 1.4 is only going to be updated to 1.6 in Mint Maya when Romeo comes out (although it can be installed from there now). But personally, if you would ask me between Ubuntu and Mint Mate, I highly recommend that you stay in Mint, its only problem for me was a high CPU consumption at times, otherwise until Cinnamon does not update well, the one that Mate brings will continue to be more stable.

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