You can continue the conversation in the forum, but please focus on the topic and do not deviate to political issues:
SynFlag on his blog just touched on a sensitive topic. To be as neutral as possible, I'll let the fedora site itself tell the story.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Channel_FAQ#Support_for_US_Embargoed_Nations
If you are from a nation that is embargoed from the US embargoed nations, you should note to the channel that you are in one of those nations. Some helpers may choose to not provide you support for legal or ethical reasons. Others may choose to do so. While you are welcome to ask your questions in #fedora, you may get better support in a region specific channel. See communicate internationally for a list of such channels.
Leaving aside the deadlock produced between the wishes of democracy in Cuba and the wishes of the end of the blockade (and I say deadlock because it is I will do such a thing if you do that and the other says the same) ……. Here it is about support for free software. And free software itself goes beyond any economic restriction, right? So what is it that there are helpers who can deny you support, for legal or ethical reasons, just because you are Cuban or Iranian or North Korean?
Well, at least they have the decency to regret such things happening.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Embargoed_nations
The Board finds it unfortunate that these embargoes prevent a true open and free exchange of and participation in the community. It is difficult to reconcile the values of a community that uses, develops, and promotes free and open source software and content with these legal prohibitions, especially in light of Fedora's core values, especially Freedom.
The Board recognizes that significant portions of our community may be dissatisfied with these embargoes. Nevertheless, it is our responsibility to ensure that the Fedora Project continues to serve the wider open source community as effectively as possible within the bounds of applicable law, including seeking ways to promote useful change.
But not enough to explain that they offer free software and that when downloading they put this
https://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora
By clicking on and downloading Fedora, you agree to comply with the following terms and conditions:
By downloading Fedora software, you acknowledge that you understand all of the following: Fedora software and technical information may be subject to the US Export Administration Regulations (the “EAR”) and other US and foreign laws and may not be exported, re-exported or transferred (a) to any country listed in Country Group E: 1 in Supplement No. 1 to part 740 of the EAR (currently, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan & Syria); (b) to any prohibited destination or to any end user who has been prohibited from participating in US export transactions by any federal agency of the US government; or (c) for use in connection with the design, development or production of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, or rocket systems, space launch vehicles, or sounding rockets, or unmanned air vehicle systems. You may not download Fedora software or technical information if you are located in one of these countries or otherwise subject to these restrictions. You may not provide Fedora software or technical information to individuals or entities located in one of these countries or otherwise subject to these restrictions. You are also responsible for compliance with foreign law requirements applicable to the import, export and use of Fedora software and technical information.
SynFlag also mentions that this also occurs in minor measures with OpenSuse, and very minor with Debian y Mozilla, but in these cases it is about exports. Hence they may not give you support ………
Before doing this article, I asked Elav for his opinion and he told me that they are discussing it at GUTL. They are sure to say something about this.
But I don't know English T_T
http://www.saberingles.com.ar/
this can help you
I'm screwed, yes I know English, but a translation for others would be good n_n
You are making fun of a reader. A translation would not be bad.
https://blog.desdelinux.net/la-crisis-de-la-linuxfera-hispanohablante/
After reading the comments, I lost the desire to translate.
If imperialism is behind it, remove the word "free."
How about Marzas, you use Chrome and Android, owned by Google… Based in the USA… I think we have to cut the cake equally.
Regards!
+1
Typical pro-imperialist comment, if you are going to find from the United States, to wear a sack of potatoes and live with goats.
And then to cry with wars that the USA promotes, the case is to love the United States and cry only if the television says to do it.
Now I live in Spain, but I adore how Cuba is, I have family who have lived there, they came back and now they regret it.
We must stop living with so much hypocrisy, most of the enemies of the USA are not as bad as the media whistles them.
And the Americans are not as bad as the left makes them see them. We all have good and bad things.
The imperialism? I thought that this blog was not about political issues! I think Elav and Kzkg are going to have a prolonged headache with the comments that are going to be given here!
Misunderstandings, misunderstandings everywhere.
And why should the opinion of a single user reflect that of the group that maintains the blog?
And who said such a thing?
Son, I think you are misunderstanding, from what I understand is that even if you have nothing to do with two governments not getting along, you as a Linux user are hurt just because some bureaucrats don't give a damn about anything else other than your interests, and that if I think it is unfair and a cause of struggle because they are totally opposite things. Unfortunately, the Gringo Government is megalomaniac (be careful, the government, the people is something else), and it is a subject for another site. Cheers
Fedora software and technical information may be subject to the US Export Administration Regulations (the “EAR”) and other US and foreign laws and may not be exported, re-exported or transferred (a) to any country listed in Country Group E: 1 in Supplement No. 1 to part 740 of the EAR (currently, Cuba,….
«E pur si move» ... However, it moves.
Fedora accepts that «It may not be exported, re-exported or transferred to any country that is on the list of countries in Group E: 1 in supplement No. 1… Cuba«. I think this is an explicit statement that Fedora conforms to those legislated one-sided laws.
However, Free Software Moves in Cuba as in the rest of planet earth. You cannot cover the Sun with a Finger.
Luckily there are other distributions !!!.
There's how I'm going to give Fedora fans here at work, maybe and I'll bring the Wheezy repo to capture regrets…. (evil plan) XD
And not to mention Ozkar when he reads this, he is likely to do a rm -rf fedora_repo….
If you don't like Fedora for the reasons shown here, use CentOS.
Or OpenSuse 😀
I have been a reader of this blog for months ... But, I see that they touch on a topic that is controversial ... What happens? Fedora itself does not limit that because it feels like it, or because people who use Fedora do not want to give "support" to these countries, but Red Hat, Inc, the main sponsor of Fedora is located in the United States from there it inherits that limitation of not being able to offer the distro to these embargoed countries. They should not generalize, nor criticize in such a way the members of Fedora (I am one of them), because it is something that escapes the hands of the community, which, even maintaining the entire distro, must be governed by the laws of the country where it is located, it is already more legal than ethical issue ...
Sometimes there are absurd laws, but, the law is the law ... Just as the GPL license has its clauses and must be respected, so the laws of the country must be respected.
Regards!
In the case of export issues, I agree, it is the law. But there they also mention the support. That is, whoever downloads Fedora, according to the terms they mention, is prohibited from giving technical information to people from those countries. And as for the support, it says right there that for ethical reasons they can deny it to you. That is ridiculous, and I am not aware of a law that allows assistance, on a voluntary and non-commercial basis, between individuals.
If you are a member of Fedora and you decide to deny help to an individual, with the penalty, but you are a discriminator. Unless you can mention which law prohibits that.
It must be remembered that Red Hat is an American company and the blockade that exists over Cuba is "Economic", that is, both services and products. Therefore, they are prohibited from supporting commercially.
And come on ... Let's see, clearer. The agreement that is read when downloading Fedora, prohibits whoever downloads it (you, me, or whoever) from supporting someone from those countries. Nowhere does it specify that it is commercial. The deal is for anyone who downloads it. That is, if you download Fedora, you are forbidden to help (even voluntarily) people from those countries. What law supports that?
As for the support and technical information, obviously it refers to the support that Fedora gives you (Wiki, reference manual, etc.). You cannot share this with those countries, but your own knowledge of course you can. Your knowledge is not subject to license.
Now, if the difference is that you have it forbidden by virtue of the Fedora license prohibiting it, while they have that license in accordance with the regulations of their country.
Greetings.
Pavloco,
Exactly, but the support in Fedora is not commercial because it is not a commercial distro.
The law is the law and it must be respected. But the law must be the same for everyone. It does not matter if you are Cuban, Argentine or Spanish. I do not agree at all, that Cubans do not have the right to have Fedora under the same conditions as any other person on the globe. When a law is not fair, that law must be changed.
"When a law is not fair, the right thing to do is violate it." The reality is that if Fedora did not agree with those laws, changing the legal address is very simple, rather than being forced to not support users who are criminalized by the US.
Each country has its laws, even the guarantee of equality that you mention varies from country to country (not in all countries it exists).
The problem is that there are many of those who maintain and read the blog who live in Cuba. Hence they are concerned.
Cheers! Paul.
As I mentioned above, the support you refer to is the support that Fedora provides directly (manuals, guides, etc.) your knowledge can be shared as long as it is not illegal in your country.
And why the hell would it be illegal for me to share my knowledge? Maybe if we talk about state secrets, but, "I know how to program a for, but it is illegal for me to teach it" ... ah?
Because deep down pavloco is microsoft hehe
Because our rulers suffer profound mental retardation. Snowden shared information and is enemy number 1.
Hahaha I'm not Microsoft, and I'm totally in favor of open information, but I'm a lawyer and I understand how the laws work.
The laws are many and they all have a particular reason, the problem is that while they are useful for one thing, they can be cumbersome for another.
Let's see guys, is it Fedora's fault? , somewhere it says that they will not give support?
No ... Simply not, in addition to everything they have the decency to explain it to you, that due to the export laws, "SOME", they could give you or not, support
But Fedora support is primarily through repos, and with bandwidth reminiscent of the early days of the Internet, it's quite understandable that there are no Fedora repos mirrors (even mirrors.facebook.com has its own. But just as some do not like the gift of giving support to Fedora or do not facilitate the work of making repos on the Cuban intranet).
Yes, but what does free software have to do with US export laws? that is only applicable for hardware, but not for free software.
Very true, and that is stupid because they say that those who download said software from those countries will not be able to have technical support and should not download said software, And well the policy is everywhere, the US government has a blockade and an infernal base in Cuba , It has already applied a blockade to Iran through its European allied partners and North Korea not to mention, in short They are a giant egoism, they do not accept that other countries can choose their own political models, that they are and are free to do so, they do not recognize the sovereignty of many countries! By the way, I'm not using Google Chrome but CHROMIUM !, the icon fails !.
Look at the user-agent that the browser has, also that the user-agent can be modified.
The economic blockade and the business boycott have always been McDonald's United States tactics to maintain its hegemony on the planet ... and if you still continue to fight them, they either invade you or coordinate with the right wing to provoke a coup.
Hehehe male, Chromium, however free it may be, it belongs to Google 😉
I do not understand what is the sick desire to hate the United States or feel bad about using things that come from there, it is ridiculous ... just to screw a little, Firefox and Mozilla, indeed, come from the USA: 3
Iron Browser, the fork of Chromium, no, it comes from Germany, a country currently spied on by the NSA, and it is considered the most secure and tracking-free Browser that exists, and let's not get into things like elinks, lynx, etc, but graphics .
Since it has everything from Chrome but with a huge cleaning
Maybe it's related to Fedora's affiliation with Red Hat:
Fedora is sponsored by Red Hat.
...
© 2013 Red Hat, Inc. and others. »
Red Hat is a company. Fedora Linux is a product. The laws of the embargo refer to American companies and their products. The relationship is clear.
Software is also a product, not only hardware is. For example: if tomorrow Motorola starts giving away its phones (they become free hardware, right?) They would still be subject to embargo laws.
No sir. The philosophy of free software implies that it is not treated as a product. The software is immaterial.
The first one who came up with treating software as a product is Bill Gates. The rest is history.
And since when product is synonymous with material? Software, free or not, is a product. But if it is required to be even more technical, the non-material product is called a service, and the embargo laws also prohibit North American companies from providing services to the blocked countries. Nothing, friend, it seems to me that the guys from Fedora / Red Hat are not doing more than repealing the laws of the country where they reside.
But respecting a law implies that a license must be broken and therefore a law ...
Is it not specified that free software (that is, with legal licenses) has as its main guideline be able to be used freely by anyone, no matter what? I say this for the simple fact that under these premises, Fedora allows and supports the denial of support and in case of everything, that fedora cannot be exported to Cuba, Iran, or whatever, it would be causing injuries to free licenses, something I repeat, is breaking the law too.
The embargo law does not apply to IRC in support, so it says, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT give you support. What I am going to do with this is that there are a few who deny support, I have seen them, people from Arab countries above all, and with this rule, which I did not know, they give them the perfect excuse so that if they open a ticket, nothing happens, because «I don't know sir, it's in the rules»
Take out the word free, since it does not matter if the software is free or not, if it is a law it affects all software, be it free or not, a translation would have to be made and not imply things that are not ... that happens because many want to have visits on blogs, and instead of analyzing things, they grab, post and understand things by halves.
Exact. The laws apply to all kinds of products: software, hardware, raw materials, fuels, food, etc. etc. etc.
And as you say, whether they are free, free, or commercial.
Therefore, luckily or unfortunately, the laws of the embargo also apply in this case!
No, diazepan, they already mentioned it and they mentioned it again, products and services, there is no reason to look for 3 feet to the cat.
Support, even if it is free of charge (whether the software is free or not), is still a service, and in the case of Fedora it is a community that creates a product and grants sponsored by a US company (RedHat). I don't understand where the difficulty of understanding that is.
Everything is subject to the laws. The software is considered a product, in the US, in Cuba and I'm sure in 99% of the countries of the world.
Do you think that these crazy laws of the United States are not involved in pro microsoft hands?
Yes. Did you really read this article before writing? This is clearly stated in the text displayed on the Fedora download page: «By downloading the Fedora software, you agree that you understand all of the following: (…) You may not provide (…) technical information to individuals or entities located in these countries."
Now, tell me which law prohibits individuals like me from voluntarily providing help to some other private user.
This is why every time they talk to me about "free" or "freedom" (technological, political, sexual, religious, etc.) I remind anyone that NO ONE AND NOTHING IS ABSOLUTELY FREE. We live, at best, in the illusion of freedom.
It seems that red pills have to be distributed around the world… Wake up, Neo!
That is wrong. And it is to be expected that distros that are made in the USA and that their servers are there as well or in other allied countries where the laws would be similar to finally harm users, what a shame to have read that. But why don't they include Russia or China or Venezuela in that list? Why don't they make economic blockades-financed those countries ???, IT IS NOT IN THE USE OF USERS TO DO IT !. Little by little more new distros will come out created in truly FREE, DEMOCRATIC AND PACIFIC countries and with their servers hosted on themselves.
In China there is Kylin and Ubuntu-Kylin, so no problem. Relax and try Debian.
America is not just the USA ... no, the USA is only about 99% of it ... 😛
That comment only seeks problems, it has no reason to be, 3ndriago and, in fact, geographically, demographically and economically it is not even close to 99% of America as a continent, abstain from such frustrating comments.
Sorry Nano, but I've seen many comments before and after mine that are insidious. Mine is only intended to be geographically, demographically, or economically accurate; It only pretends to be sarcastic: the presence of the USA is so widespread - whether most like it or not - that the servers that host this blog are located in the USA ...
Now, if you want to ban me, then do it, you are in your right (it will not be the first blog that they ban me from!) But I would like to see how you explain that you demand that I refrain from making frivolous or frivolous comments and let others write nonsense like that in the USA they put a chip and a listen in the anus.
Regards!
I correct a type above: »Mine does NOT claim to be accurate geographically, demographically or economically; he only pretends to be sarcastic ... »
Yes, but sarcasm is not frowned upon by many who become children when they are opposed, so it is better to simply be very clear, because then problems start due to "misunderstandings" (which for me is just the urge to cry) but good.
Banned? Nah, until I see a real offensive comment or something that really gets off topic, I have no reason or need to even moderate one of your comments.
By the way, making comments like that, to users who are clearly fans of something, is just a provocation for fights, do not think that I have it with you, I just want to prevent more crap from being released in this thread, how well it has grown.
America itself does not exist, there is North America and South America, they are two different continents. 🙂 They do not even share the same plate.
You will say Latin America and Anglo-Saxon America, where do you leave us Mexicans 😀
Sometimes I want to hit you, moron xD
Those are REGIONS of America, that is, parts of the same continent.
@nano, that is not so, the division of the continents to this day is still under discussion, for more information:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continente
Go to the continental models section and you will see that there are many xD models.
ay ay another that passed two or three towns, compa think what he writes
The United States always finds freedom: / I am more angry that these media depend on the United States, knowing that there are other ways ¬ ¬! but nooo, they called themselves free software, it is said that it is for everything, when it is not: / I would like to see what richard stallman thinks about this ...
I mean fedora ,, debian, and those distributions with limitations: / archlinux no problem?
Arch is not a commercial distro. It is a community distro.
And he is also Canadian.
then you have to choose non-commercial distributions: /
In general, almost no distro is commercial, the problem is if they are based in the USA, and in fact it is not a problem, they already explained that Debian does not suffer from this painful situation, they only refer directly to hardware that Debian has inside.
Canadians are too quiet, how strange hehe is just kidding
ArchLinux has no problems because its origin is Canadian, so the laws do not apply, as well as Mageia (France), Ubuntu (Canonical UK), and a few others.
Sorry «Fedora Yankee»):
I quote a comment by Alejandro Perez [0] in another post:
“Restrictions exist for all distributions that have US legal links. This includes software created by FSF http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html#exportcontrol, Suse by your side too http://www.novell.com/company/policies/trade_services/ Debian same https://wiki.debian.org/USExportControl Mozilla http://hecker.org/mozilla/eccn In the end we can repudiate everything to the gringos and the US, but most of the distros are based in the US and have to comply with the laws. The same if there were (I don't know one, that's why I write it that way) a distribution based on Cuba, surely it couldn't be exported to the US. »
[0] http://hackingthesystem4fun.blogspot.com/2013/08/discriminacion-etnica-en-fedora.html
Yes, it is not a matter of the companies, the law is the law.
It is the same thing that we discussed in the forum, the patriot law that obliges companies to submit to the state if it asks them for a blow job.
And I'm not saying that only the gringos do that, pff, in China they do it, in Venezuela they don't even ask for permission, they only agree if they are interested.
The question is not that the law is the law, but how practical it is ... and above all, how much does it matter to companies to fight against it, because otherwise, they simply submit because they lose nothing.
Anyway, the topic is over talking about this
In that I agree, these kinds of laws are distasteful, what I am going to is that it is not the fault of the companies, it is not necessary to demonize fedora or mozilla, it is the fault of the countries (they all have stupid laws, only You have to turn to see Spain that, being a "First World" country, has been enacting intellectual property laws that really hurt others.
Nano, from this type of discussion you learn if you know how to take it seriously and responsibly. Bad comments are simply ignored, because they do not even deserve an answer, instead intelligent ones contribute to the growth of the discussion.
It is not about imposing ideologies, but about sharing ways of seeing life.
Look at what he replied to Alejandro Perez, do you know what happens? Many value more the parties paid by Red Hat in the fudcon or linuxcon or Flock, in 4-star hotels, that their principles are young and I think they have never been politically active. I've worked for free in a center-left social aid NGO, where the director is a Nobel Peace Prize winner here in Argentina, that's why these things take me out and screw me a lot.
The question to Ale Perez and others would be "what do you prefer ?, 4 star hotel, food, party or just beginnings?"
ahahaha no Synflag, you are already appealing to the "right side" of the human being xD, 99% of the people go for the food, the party and the hotel, what's more, even many of the most "leftist" are also leaving xD
This is annoying since knowledge should be shared, so should free software-open source, otherwise you would be being "Selfish". then it is annoying that this happens with sister or sovereign nations; because it could simply be happening to others. That is to say, EVERY COMPANY AND SERVERS LOCATED IN THE USA ARE UNDER PRESSURE OF THEIR MACABRAS LAWS. This page addresses restrictions on embargoed nations, groups, and individuals as a result of US federal law. The legal risks and responsibilities of the Fedora Project are assumed by Red Hat, Inc. as our primary sponsor. Because Red Hat is a US-based commercial entity, it must abide by all laws and regulations of the US, along with its other responsibilities. Therefore, the Fedora Project is bound by these laws and regulations as well.
Let's not confuse terms. The correct word is not selfish but greedy.
It would actually be imperialist.
Sorry but you are becoming too sectarian, too "anti-imperialist" and that does not go with the blog, if I keep seeing comments like that, with that language so politicized and obviously idealized, I'm going to have to become a bastard again and start fucking.
To everyone who reads this, the issue is based on Fedora and its compliance with the embargo law, not on whether the US is good or bad, selfish, imperialistic, or whatever.
The thing about Nano is that the issue goes much further than Fedora, here we are dealing with issues related to freedom not only of software but also of its developers and users.
Do not be afraid of these types of discussions, if you have enough brain, you can learn a lot from them.
Let's look at the two sides of the coin:
I think that before talking about "Fedora Yankee" or "Imperialist", remember, try to set up a company in the USA and try to operate without following the laws of the country, it is "for that reason" that divisions are created in other countries, for " evade »the specific laws of the USA, for example, retaking Fedora and« re-assembling and redistributing it »in another country that can transfer technology and knowledge to Cuba.
The other side of the coin is the hypocrisy of the "blockade". Cuba sells through its technology companies such proprietary software such as Oracle and Microsoft, which it obtains through its relations with third countries (ex: Venezuela), it even has agreements with Gemalto from France through Mexico, so why couldn't Fedora Project get in through third parties? ...
That also I wonder. Also, distros like CentOS are really more liberal in that regard, but I don't think you have to necessarily rely on Fedora.
Fedora cannot enter through third parties because the restrictions include re-export. According to those restrictions, living in X country, you can download an ISO * of Fedora, but you cannot (legally) send that image to any person who lives in Cuba, nor give it support.
In that case, Fedora would not be free software, since it denies one of the freedoms which is to redistribute the software ... it would only be Open Source.
Exactly, there is a dilemma, fedora is clearly violating the GPL. If your country does not allow you to comply with the GPL then you should not use it.
I said that above, to comply with a law you have to break another ... and the GPL is considered a legal document.
the dilemma is which of the two laws has more weight for fedora?
There are many mixed comments and for the most part I see that they leave the subject.
First of all I would tell you to read the original note, where beyond my passionate overtones, you are going to see other data, such as that Debian half ignores it, and the FSF half that tries to ignore this. Apart from it, here the problem is:
Did you see the devil's advocate ?, when he says: Look but don't touch, touch but don't swallow, etc ?.
Well here the issue is that Fedora says "Friends, Community, Freedom", on the one hand and on the other it says (second contradiction), that they are VERY sorry for this, but then ?, because the Board who is who allows or not this Does it leave free to whoever wants to take it or leave it (at that moment it is clear that it is not a law since a law is not random) the issue of denying or not supporting embargoed nations?
So, discarding the legal issue, which is obvious, otherwise they would not leave it to chance, we must say that they support that for ethical reasons some helper denies support, but how? (more contradictions), it is not about freedom, friendship ?, So, why do you give an excuse to some xenophobic or some racist / fool / badly educated to have a valid excuse to deny support being a helper and having OP (being able to ban the user)? There are many contradictions in this rule, which sounds more like «I wash my hands and what really matters to me is not having problems with my helpers, who work for free and serve me, so on the other hand I apologize for not be crossed out that I prevail the convenience of work and money over ethics.
I hope you understand the text.
In a comment sooooo much below I said it, it is not that they deny it for "respecting the law" or because someone is watching them, but because it is something purely theirs, of that certain gringo fanaticism of "I will not help you, shitty communist and here says I can reserve the right »
It seems to me that they are making a storm in a glass of water.
Fedora is affiliated with Red Hat which is headquartered in the USA and is subject to the laws of the latter, as are its products.
I know that software cannot be classified as a product, but it is not just an idea, in my opinion it is something in between.
Regarding support, in my opinion it means that some members of the community may not want to give you support, has it not always been that way?
Well, it is true, since I have investigated that in Cuba there is hardly much technical support for Fedora in terms of repos, and looking at @elav's personal blog, the truth is that I understand it when he wanted to try Arch.
To me the truth is not that I like the laws of the United States very much, because in many aspects I do not agree with them (immigration, defense, international politics). However, as a developer, I also have a problem with communist countries being favored by my work, and I'm not talking specifically about the people, but about their government and their economy.
For as much as some defenders of these governments speak of freedom and democracy, a country that represses anyone who does not agree with its ideology, marginalizing it and pointing it out, is neither free nor democratic, since rights must be applicable for everyone, not just friends of the government.
Regarding the laws, I think that everything has been very clear, software is a product, no matter how free it may be, and unfortunately or fortunately, it is tied to the laws and regulations of the countries that produce it.
Now comes my flame… I wonder if all those who defend communism tooth and nail are as hypocritical as the fat man from North Korea who enjoys his broadband Internet connection in his brand new iMac?
In most cases, they are like this (at least, the Debian fans on esDebian).
The last time I tried, esdebian was blocked from Cuba ... I think its creator is based in Miami.
David, this is not about defending communism, it is about discriminating against people who live in those countries, nobody gave them a choice where to be born, the issue of governments is something else. I ask you a question, would you deny a glass of water to an Iranian who is dying of thirst because he was born in Iran?
If that Iranian agrees to discriminate against people because of their religion, if he agrees to kill women with stones because another type abused them or looked at them as he shouldn't, if he agrees that some have fewer rights than others only because they don't think the same if I would let him die of thirst.
And let's clarify something around that question ... Letting him die of thirst is not the same as killing him, it is simply choosing not to help him.
And that, is precisely what happens in the case of Fedora IRC, users simply choose not to help users of the distro who are from countries that constantly violate the human rights of their own citizens (not to mention that the US or my own country do not). And unfortunately it is very difficult to know exactly whom I am helping, so all the citizens of these countries suffer the consequences.
Letting him die of thirst is not the same as killing him, it is simply choosing not to help him.
Please think about the phrase you wrote.
"And unfortunately it is very difficult to know exactly whom I am helping, so all the citizens of these countries suffer the consequences."
I mean, don't help him just in case… I see where you're going.
I think he said kill him in the context of "killing him with a gun"
@diazepan: «I think he said to kill him in the context of 'killing him with a weapon'». It is exactly the same, you do not give him the water knowing that he is about to die if you do not give him water, or you shoot him. Is the same.
Well, I think the one who has to think the answer is you, because it is not the same by any means.
I do not lead my life based on moral precepts imposed by the government or the priest on duty and I am convinced that I do more harm by helping those types of people (who harm others because of political or religious ideas), than by ceasing to help those who have nothing to do with it.
However, I respect the decision of those who choose to help them for one reason or another.
Juan Carlos is by no means the same, and there is no need to think about it, because the moral precepts that you use to govern your life do not necessarily have to be the same ones that I use (and that does not make you or I wrong, it just makes us different).
From my point of view, it would do more harm to help a person so than to stop helping them. Concept that also applies in the case of helping people (as long as you do not know them) who are from countries with which I do not agree from a political point of view, because these people can use the help that I give them to repress and further alienate the population of that country.
Of course, in the meantime we will explain how to optimize the database of all the corpses of Guantanamo, so that the SQL queries of how many are the dead are done faster ... please ... it is a double standard and a tremendous prejudice ...
Indeed, it is a double standard (on both sides), so I do not agree that Fedora is being criticized in this case because it allegedly violates freedom.
The first comment just gave me a little itch, due to the lack of knowledge about terms such as socialism and communism, but this, this is for sale, I want to believe that it is only the result of a terrible blindness.
Realize that you would let a man die for his ideas, which curiously are the same as letting others die who think differently from him, so there would not be much difference between that Iranian and you.
And from what you read, it is not that Fedora users "choose" not to help, but that it is imposed, based on a trade embargo, which has little to nothing to do with human rights for the citizens of those countries. In fact, the UN has repeatedly condemned the embargo on Cuba.
So things by name, neither communism nor capitalism exist today, in China there are private schools and in the USA social security. As for today, that is, they are from the center-left, center-right ...
Fedora ranks on the RH side because it suits it, not for anything else. Well, they could take a position like CentOS, and not hide behind the fallacy that free software is a product.
You can tell that you have serious reading comprehension problems, because at no time do I speak of letting an Iranian die who lets someone die, but rather an Iranian who hurts someone (even assassinates) based on political and / or religious ideals , which at the end of the day are nothing more than ideas imposed or borrowed, because most of these extremist characters do not have enough brain to incubate their own ideas.
On the other hand, what right do you condemn Fedora for allying with Red Hat even if it is for convenience? Isn't that how the human being, the societies, the countries themselves work? We are all on the side of what suits us and makes us grow.
I have friends in Iran and I have been in Iran last year and I can assure you that the vast majority of the population is against everything you suppose in the first paragraph. Of course, there is a fanatical minority that is the one that maintains the regime by force and benefits from being declared members of the axis of evil and being under the crosshairs of Israel to remain in power. And it is unlikely that any member of that fanatic minority is a lover of free software.
I am talking about a particular Iranian, the same one that Juan Carlos proposed. I don't know where you got that I'm talking about all Iranians.
You just need to say that I am condemning Muslims.
What you say has a somewhat xenophobic tinge, users who are prevented from accessing it is only because of the economic blockade.
Here we are talking about politics, freedom and human rights ...
Because of course for you, every Iranian who lives in Iran agrees with their system, and if he is not, he has complete freedom to say it on the internet, that the country is monitored to the eggs it does not matter, that by making you happy and like you he will say that he is against everything.
Keep sleeping on that side ...
Good point Mr. Juan Carlos
I can explain it to you, David Gómez, and without controversy, my apologies for it. You'll see; There are two types of countries: Those that legislate for the rich, which is the case of the Empire and its satellite countries, and those that legislate for the poor, which is the case of Cuba and countries related to its ideological creed. Or what is the same, there are dictatorships that are on the left and that work for those who have the least and there is Imperialism that works and legislates for the rich, big businesses, banks, truts etc. etc. I apologize for this post, but I could not hold back when reading your comment.
9 out of 10 politicians steal, the political color does not matter ... I do not believe the Chávez or the Castros live in adobe huts
No problem Chaparral, I am open to any discussion. However, I am not talking about the economic point of view, which would surely lead us to a much longer discussion.
I am talking about repression towards those who do not agree with the ideas of the government, I am talking about not allowing human beings to develop and live their lives as they see fit, I am talking about promoting and imposing an idea of equality (attacking the rights of the individual) when precisely diversity is the greatest greatness of the human race (and equality of rights, of opportunities to have a better life ... not in a way of thinking or behaving) must be promoted.
I recommend you read 1984, it is a very good book.
I have come to think that sincerely industrialized countries should care what the communist countries or other Arab countries do, etc ..., if they want to screw over there. They are in their national sovereignty to decide. In Cuba there is a dictatorship and? the culprits are the Cubans themselves, well, we have not had countries with dictatorships overthrown by the same citizens, a clear example, but I remember badly, a few years ago Portugal.
You will see that with these comments they block me DesdeLinux and the holy mother...
Sometimes I would like to make a neutral exchange with people from all over the world, some have a distorted reality, others know more about my country than I do. Ces't la vie ..
And by the way, I had a thorn… yours threw Franco away or did they have to wait? Uhhh low punch ...
Where was the neutrality you just mentioned, dhunter?
In the stomach by pandev92 xD
+1
Fedora is one of the few 100% American, and is subject to the laws of that country, which are above any license or citizen of it, it is not their fault ... debian, ubuntu, opensuse are more global, so they can escape from restrictions of this government or others (Ubuntu is based in the Isle of Man and not South Africa or UK). Anyway, this is a political limitation rather than a technical one ... here neither Stallman nor any SL leader can do anything ... it is out of their hands.
Fedora can be opened from RedHat quietly, they don't do it for convenience.
It does not happen to belong to Red Hat or not, but to be a legal person established in the United States ... if they went to the Isle of Man like Uncle Mark, another would be history.
I add more to my other comment .. it is not the first time that I see these Fedorian restrictions ... sometimes they scare even those who want to put a mirror and suggest they do sub replica not of the servers in the USA but of Latin American countries (there it would not be a direct export: P) https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2012-July/422362.html
They run out of servers and half staff to develop the base system, in addition to obstacles to use gnome that is managed by RedHat, etc etc
I think it's better as they are, with the accounts clear: Fedora is the testing ground for RHEL and now, whoever wants to use it, go ahead.
I shared this topic in the G + Fedora community, at the same time that I mentioned my distrust in SELinux, and received various comments, many of them quite stupid, others, the least, more thoughtful. The truth is that the main problem here is in the discrimination that is made in Fedora's IRC, and something that I pointed out to Synflag, the issue of the re-export of the code, which is ultimately part of the "rottenness" that carries the restriction.
Someone there said that Debian has the same conditions, and that is not the case, Debian refers to the hardware with Debian installed, not the OS, which is very smart on the part of that community, since the difference is significant.
I sent the staff of this Blog this matter, I don't know if they have taken it into account and that is why they published it. Why did I send them to you? due to the fact that this must be made known. A distribution whose main slogan is "Fedora is one hundred percent free to enjoy and share" should not adhere to these restrictions, because it violates the basic precepts of Free Software. They will tell me «but it depends on RedHat and they must comply with them because they are in the USA». Well, the solution is to stop depending on RedHat, separate from the company and make the distribution really free, which they do not do for convenience, and that makes them a RedHat subsidiary. The Fedora community is large enough to make it really free and use servers located in other non-restrictive regions. What Linux Torvalds does Fedora use? Well, knowing this you can grab its famous finger and sit on it for a long time.
I have been an unconditional user of Fedora, with her I learned Linux, and a lot, and I must confess that I had never paid attention to these restrictions, in fact, I did not even read them, but this situation, in addition to my PERSONAL distrust with the implementation of SELinux, and if someone really knows how it works maybe they will give me the reason, they made me dismiss it outright.
Around there they will say "look what he says and he's writing from Windows 8", but there is a big difference, we all know Microsoft's restrictions, and like many I am forced to use Microsoft products for my work. The Fedora thing, and if they want to put Suse in too, it's HIPOCRITA. You cannot fill your mouth by making known the foundations of Free Software, not including proprietary software in the distribution because it is not consistent with the Linux ideology, and then tell a user that you are not going to give it any support because you live in Cuba.
They can tell me «well, I download it the same way and I look for the« how-tos »on the Internet, but that is not the question, the question is the discriminatory attitude, it is a question of morality and principles, something that from some time we would all have to imbue ourselves .
These are some of the reasons I spread the Synflag article, and on some sites they almost crucified me. If Linux is FREE, it's FREE, period, and this is the reason why I will advise whoever can do it not to download or install Fedora. There are many real free distributions, and among them is Ubuntu (and I am not ubuntero, I clarify, before some unstitching starts with the usual one), which does not impose any restriction to download, support, distribute, reprogram, etc, etc., despite being based in the UK, a member of NATO.
And this, I clarify because I also read stupid things about it, this position of mine has nothing to do with "being gringos."
Greetings, and sorry for having gone so long.
I myself consulted with elav. He told me that he posted the link to the article on the GUTL and that they were debating. In the meantime, I can do the article myself, as least sensitized as possible.
Very good for elav, nothing else can be expected of him, especially when his homeland is one of the victims.
I completely agree with what you say, and the truth is that this is why I like Debian, Slackware and CentOS (I don't like RHEL very much because of the blobs that make the distro a trialware and for me, that's inconceivable).
Like I said in a previous comment, if you don't like Fedora, use CentOS. Not because it is simply more stable than Fedora, but it really is a much more open community distro than Fedora and RHEL. CentOS is based on RHEL, but that doesn't mean you have to be making such trivial statements as Fedora has.
I like CentOS because it is the best distro that knows how to get the most out of the .RPM package system, also, the one that shows greater flexibility to those people who want to use CentOS as if it were Fedora.
On the side of Debian and Slackware, it is a separate party, they are already globalized community distros and they do not lean on American politics, so I like both distros more than CentOS (especially the first one), and the truth is that this is nothing more and nothing less than a skirmish that makes free software have more supporters, because it is not sold as a product as it is with proprietary software.
If you see me commenting from Android, it is because I have an Android smartphone. If they see me commenting from any version of Windows, it is because I am doing maintenance work on a PC that is foreign (XP / 7/8), or because I am working with proprietary software that they force me to use such as Premier or 3D Studio Max, or I am simply updating the antivirus database that I have installed on my PC as an additional misfortune (Vista).
But in reality the discrimination depends on each user regardless of the distro they use. Fedora cannot force its users to support you, nor can it force them not to support you.
Whoops * discrimination.
Isn't that Freedom too?
Exactly, that was what he wanted to imply.
That is not the issue. I can also send the * Fedora ISO to elav and explain how to configure your Fedora system to recognize your graphics. The question is the attitude of the Fedora helpers and the guidelines to which they are subject. As I said, it is a moral issue as a member of the community.
Good comment Juan Carlos. I use fedora but with that attitude and the obligation on their part to be manipulated by these federal laws causes the distro to be uninstalled and therefore to continue using the other good distros.
Editor's note: the remaining content of the comment was sanctioned for distorting the topic and directing partisan, political and unnecessary comments, which have nothing to do with the thread of the topic
Fascist right wing of Venezuela, man, you have just won the moderation of your comments, enough is enough, this is not a political debate, much less a field to express your partisan opinions.
nano you will have to open a policy page that things don't
tremendous comment, totally agree
That Linux is free does not mean that it can be anarchic and not adapt to the laws. You are free to use fedora, nobody forbids it, the support is something else.
Juan Carlos,
I am 100% in agreement with your comment. I use Linux on principle and for my Fedora it is a distro that I do not intend to use or recommend to anyone. As you say "If Linux is FREE it is FREE period". I can't use a distro that discriminates against people with the excuse ... "it's that Red Hat told me to do it, it's the law", it doesn't work. It's a matter of principles.
But this gives a lot to talk about, some are going for politics and discrimination, all or most of us are going through the USA to the Internet, we use Google products and blablabla ... Now as a Fedora user some statements like this clearly annoy me, but not they do not affect my use and I hope one day to help the community regardless of their country of origin or residence.
Yes, well. However, this theme becomes more and more tiresome than usual, so don't make your life bitter and ♫ let's sing in the rain… ♫
Laws in the USA ¿? ¿? A pathetic joke. The US is the most hypocritical country that has ever existed. What freedom ... and they put chips in you and listen up your ass. What terrorist countries and killing thousands left and right ... What nuclear weapons ... and IT IS THE ONLY FUCKING COUNTRY THAT HAS DROPPED AN ATOMIC BOMB! Disgust among disgust ... eye! do not confuse that terrifying country with its population ... because that would be a mistake worthy of the Yankees …………… 😛
Greetings.
Man, well I just got out of the bathroom, I checked my ass and I didn't find anything there ... Could it be that they didn't install the chip and do you hear them? 🙁
By the way, the servers that host this blog are in the USA, maybe you should not stop by here anymore, lest they "inoculate you with a virus" by IRC ...
Regards!
Do not speak without knowing, they are in Argentina.
No, they are in the USA; specifically in Atlanta, Georgia: http://gnutransfer.com/centro-de-datos/
thanks for the information and the clarification… although…. IT has nothing to do with my comment.
Because I wasn't responding to your comment but to nano's. 😛
then the sandy one misinformed me ... ee
Haha, blame it on sandy. 😀
It's okay that normally he is to blame for everything but this time it's yours for not reading: https://blog.desdelinux.net/el-blog-desdelinux-abandona-hostgator-y-pasa-a-gnutransfer/
Yes I know what I'm talking about Nano, yes I know… 😉
hahaha, I wonder why you answer the verb or less relevant part? I was referring to the NSA, etc., etc. etc. etc. Or could it have been that you wanted to poke your ass? Which, of course, I respect. Is it also something of that Yankee double standard?
For the next, see if you do not learn to read a little and find what is relevant in a text, on the internet even the capital letters that I put can help you !!! to interpret.
Do not hesitate to ask any other help, I can give you support.
Yes, friend, perhaps my three years of experience as a Literature teacher will not be enough for me to understand the profound comment raised above by you. Anyway, I want to tell you that I have checked again and I still do not have any foreign body lodged there. Could it be that you have your own head immersed in your rectum, and that discomfort makes you believe that it is a government implant?
Regards!
This topic is going on for a long time I recently saw it in a + google community and it is not that I am in favor of that type of practice but that's the way the gringos are, they think they own everything: /
Hahaha, I was the one who got him into the G + community. I'm still pulling out the thorns that were thrown at me….
lol
Now, having read the post, I wonder Red hat is actually doing something for that in Cuba, Iran, etc. not use Fedora?
I do not think, it is just a Warning, which says that some users, or rather, developers, "could not" (it is up to the developer himself, whether to do it or not) give you support, and that fedora "could not" be exported , to those countries: Fedora could have been silly and say nothing of this, and everyone would keep saying, uh, what a cool distro.
I was in Cuba for a month, although the blockade is true, it is also true that the medication my mother used was brought from MIAMI. It is a complex issue, but making a post about this takes many visits, to the blog that posts it
and why not do like Debian? or the FSF itself, which makes mention of that law regarding the importation of hardware or software, but in no case deny support to users….
And what is the reason for not giving you support? Did you go through IRC? Did you read the synflag note? He is very into Fedora .. and in the forum he has a couple of other things, quite "murky"
Seriously, the law PROHIBITS you from giving support to a user?
So you just hold on to the assumption that this was published "just to get more visits"? Because you have been repeating it for many comments here.
Look, yes, indeed, everything that is published here is to obtain visits, let's not be idiots, without them nothing makes sense.
But from there to saying that "this article was made only to attract visits and create flame" bitch please, did you know that the source was first published openly in the forum and there was talk about whether to publish this or not? Synflag himself commented on the post, Elav said that it was being discussed in a Cuban community…. about your opinions regarding Fedora positions, you have good points, about the visits, you are pissing out of the pot
They do not sell software or anything related that contains cryptographic parts, that's what the usemoslinux law speaks of.
If a Cuban enters #fedora, I assure you that at least 2 nicknames that I know will deny him support, and, they are within their rights, Red Hat gives them a rule to excuse themselves.
The same to all the countries that are in the embargo, it is not only Cuba.
My question is how do you know? How do you know they are from those countries? Do they first look at where they are from before attending? : /
The problem is not the import / export regulations, which is a law and companies are obliged to put that legal clause ... What is an infamy on the part of Fedora, is to limit the support to users from certain countries ... especially when appealing to ethical reasons and tell them that little less than looking for life ...
Ethical reasons that are not mentioned in the case of countries that exercise massive espionage in the network or even torture such as the USA itself ... or friendly dictatorships such as those of Saudi Arabia and other Arab (and non-Arab) countries ... not at all respectful of the human rights!
If this can be done by Canonical (no fan by the way!)….
Fedora, you used to be cool!
American capitalist imperialism.
As a Spaniard, I feel ashamed that the politicians of my country (who have not voted), do what the United States tells them.
Long live cuba libre 🙂
Yes, Cuba free of dictators.
It's official, this is the comment that wins the prize for the most asshole of all in the thread, I honor you!
Cuba libre ... yes, the drink with coca and rum ...
Ahahahahahaha XD
@nano I don't want to ruin the flame war of the topic, but I think there are problems with the forum, because at least I can't access it without me having a 502 Bad Gateway.
the mysterious ones are being done, something is up to them xD
Its mystery makes me suspicious 😀
Yes it's correct. What's more, check out this:
http://i.imgur.com/9nug1t5.png
At least I already know that I'm not the only one with the problem, it seemed strange to me, that's why I tried the thing through a VPN and the same thing happened to me.
I hope the forum improves or prepares for the wave of troll and off-topic comments to come.
It is already reported to the cumbanos, remember that I do not have access to the server
Barman: ¿Qué trago desea tomar?
Cubano: Deme un "Ja, Ja, Ja", por favor
Barman: ¿Qué es eso del "Ja, Ja, Ja"?
Cubano: Ése trago que mezcla Coca Cola con ron
Barman: ¡Ah, ya! ¡Cuba Libre!
Cubano: Ja, ja, ja.
Here's the original joke (or is it?).
I do not plan to use Fedora while there is no support for this distribution in Cuba.
I am the 100th comment, who has listened to Gloria Estefan's new album?
No ._. I just discovered the album "Electric" by Broken Teeth! xD
One of the highest priority missions of the powerful to continue maintaining the unequal system that exists in the world is to divide the peoples, with fear, with hatred, with patriotism, with things like this ... they know it very well ... divide and you will win. They try to piss us off into fighting between brothers. Let's not continue giving that satisfaction to the tycoons… Cubans, Spaniards, Argentines, Chileans… wherever we are from, we are all worker brothers. We must respect each other and help each other to balance the global scale.
Let's not give it more lapses, if Fedora wants to close its eyes to the brothers of communist countries, so be it, choose another GNU / Linux distribution that there are hundreds already flying.
Peace and respect please.
Health-
That is what I like about GNU / Linux, -in general- everyone helps each other and shares knowledge, there is no head, it is a perfect anarchic system.
I am always reading this blog to stay informed. But today is my first comment and of no minor issue.
Regarding the subject, red hat as a fedora is at a crossroads for respecting a law of the usa and by respecting said law violates one of the terms of Free Software that its use cannot be discriminated against people of any kind (race, nation, religion, etc). Furthermore they call themselves the leaders in Free SW which is not the case by violating this principle.
The only way out I see is to simply stop using GNU tools or any other Free SW tool and create your own tools with another type of License in which they can discriminate against people, nations, etc.
I think they are not violating anything :), violating would imply that they would not allow you to download the iso of the distro. But in the case of support, they can do whatever they want, in fact they may not even support anyone, they have no obligation.
On the SL and the law, the law is above unfortunately.
Or worse still, that they did not allow you to download the source code of the distro, since it would go against the "4 freedoms" of free software.
Calm people in Cuba, SFL continues to be used no matter what ... that's the beauty of GNU / Linux-SFL, there is always a choice. Cheers
Translation please, not all of us have your level of English
… Translation done with my mediocre level of English (it's not literal, so don't ask me too much):
1) «If you belong to a country that is under economic embargo by the US, you should go to IRC channels belonging to those countries. Some people may decide not to help you for ethical or legal reasons, others may. Although you are welcome to ask #fedora with your questions, you could receive better support on channels belonging to those regions. See 'international communication' for a list of those channels. »
2) «We consider it regrettable that these embargoes prevent a truly open and free exchange and participation in the community. It is difficult to reconcile the values of a community that uses, develops and promotes free and open source software and the content of these legal prohibitions, especially in light of the core values of Fedora, especially freedom.
We recognize that a significant portion of our community may be unhappy with these types of policies. However, it is our responsibility to ensure that the Fedora Project continues to serve the wider open source community as effectively as possible within the limits of applicable law, including finding mechanisms to provide you with helpful methods. "
3) «When downloading Fedora, you should be aware of the following terms: Fedora and its documentation may be subject to the United States Export Administration Regulations (EAR) and other US and foreign laws, and cannot be exported, re-exported or transferred to (a) any country that appears in the country of Group E: 1 in Supplement No. 1 part 740 of the EAR (currently, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) , (B) to any prohibited destination or end user who has been prohibited from engaging in export transactions from the United States by any federal agency of the U.S. government, or (c) for use in connection with the design, development and production of nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons systems, war rockets, space vehicles, sounding rockets, or unmanned aerial vehicle systems. You may not download Fedora software or technical information if you are located in one of these countries, or otherwise subject to these restrictions. You may not provide Fedora software or technical information to persons or entities located in one of these countries, or otherwise subject to these restrictions. You are also responsible for complying with the requirements of foreign law applicable to the import, export, and use of Fedora software and technical information. "
But as I understand it, there are democratic elections in Cuba, only that instead of parties with closed lists participating, individuals do so, and anyone can appear. Not like in the pseudo-liberal democracies where you have to belong to one of the two hegemonic parties and have a plug in the top.
On the other hand, I think, instead of blocking the entire population of a country, which does not have to be "guilty" of the attitudes of some governments towards others, why not block, as the case may be, only certain domains or IP addresses?
Yes yes .. very democratic. First I would document well about how the process is. In the pseudo democracies as you call them, the party can be created by you, nobody prevents you.
For more information:
http://www.larazon.es/detalle_normal/noticias/945905/elecciones-en-cuba-una-farsa-sin-emocion
Pff ... and the source you give me to prove it is that "fascist pamphlet" from La Razón? The same "newspaper" that defends tooth and nail the "casino" policy of the Popular Party?
Do you know which is the best dictatorship, friend Pandev92? The one that doesn't seem like it in the public eye.
Sure, you can create a thousand parties if you wish, but do you really think that even if your party won an important social mass, they would let you govern? Unless you join the game of those who rule, it will not be like that, because they control the media, and they will ensure that your party option does not go beyond being a minority.
STAHP!
Look, my son, I'm half Cuban, my mother is a full-blooded communist :), my grandmother was also a communist and a great disillusionment with fidel castro, since she sold herself for something that the final was not. You are not going to sell me the fallacy that Cuba is a democracy, I have been there for almost 3 months in 2004. I have met a gringo snitch from the block, whom no one treated for fear that he would say something about them, I have met some thieves at the airport who forced us to give them money to leave the country, I have found that some traffic vigilante thieves who stopped me and my relatives, simply because a Yankee was going (and that I am not a Yankee ) in the car, so that you can fine him for no reason and keep the money. I have found that I could enter all the hotels, but my mother, not because I have Cuban nationality, I have found that nothing bad can be said about the eternally established regime (which is nothing more than another Franco regime, also with frank elections). I have met communist officials who work in high positions, embassy officials, athletes from the time my mother played volleyball, who looked like the greatest communists in the world, and the first time they fled the country, eluding the high government controls. If that is democracy, I will give it to you and you can go live there, see that Spain is a country of corrupt people and thieves, both political and civil, but Cuba is not far behind in anything. And I say it to my pain.
Gentlemen, it is getting to the point where this is no longer objective and everyone wants to equate what they think of the USA with "X" or "Y" their nation's party or political ideal, from now on, I reserve the Right to moderate any partisan comment that has nothing to do with the exact point of the issue, which is the possibility of denying Fedora IRC support due to North American export and blocking laws.
Going into the subject and from my very particular point of view, all this seems to me to be an idiotic of biblical proportions, for the simple fact that really, none of these moderators are going to be penalized for supporting a Cuban, or an Iranian , or a Latino, why? Because Fedora support is a free VOLUNTARY community support, that is, it is not in question, part of a paid service.
This boils down to the fact that everything revolves around American technicalities and fanaticisms where they say one thing and do another, something like "I don't give you support, it's illegal" when it is really "I won't give it to you because I don't want to and I can reserve the right, damn communist "... things as they are, because, if it were for breaking the law, and if they did it precisely because of the fact that" I am an obedient citizen, the law is the law, "I would love to know, how many times You have not crossed a red light, a stop, have you drunk as a minor? … Isn't that breaking the law? What excuse do you have? ... hhehehe, is that nobody saw it, and what is not seen is not felt: 3
It can be safely applied to the Fedora IRC. What legal entity watches them to see if they help someone who is under a blockade? … Is more. How the hell do they know that this person is an inhabitant of a blocked country? Do they first look at where you come from before answering you? Is that ethical? ... gives food for thought.
The following comment has been discarded by the author because it includes political bases, and as a precaution, it has not been published in this paragraph.
And who, other than dhunter, uses Fedora? The distro is RedHat's testing ground, it doesn't do much and is self-censoring. That those who do not know it well or those who like mediocrity use it.
The problem is not whether they use it or not ... the problem is that this happens in free software, and I'll tell you, many use it, and it is not in this post why, what advantages it has and that in fact many use it to be up to date with the next RHEL for labor issues.
How about, I appreciate that they have published the article and everyone will think, because it generates traffic by putting the source, and no, it is not like that.
I am interested first of all that this is not only known, but can be changed.
He has already sent an email to the Fedora Board, a ticket was opened on the IRC of an ambassador in Brazil on the subject, he spoke with members of Red Hat but not the Board, and except for 2-3 people, they all agree that the law It is not extensive to IRC and it is also ironic and contradictory the Fedora motto with those rules, it gives a valid support or excuse to any xenophobic helper or with problems with any country, when, free software is not that, and if that If that were the case, that helper should be a user and not a helper, anyway, as I read many comments diverting the subject, I comment that mostly in # fedora-social, especially non-US, they think like me, but, they emphasize that It's a big battle, no girl Even so, my idea is to win it, because to be honest and I think I said it more than once, I like the rpm, yum is my favorite manager after zypper, and I like that the bugs in fedora are results and they even put suggestions that I have hit certain parts of the distro.
So, Latin American friends, stop pretending to be different, because in the eyes of Uncle Sam, we are all the same, we are not native citizens of the US, and if tomorrow your country is seized for whatever reason, things like that, They are going to like it, also, it is a matter of principles and ethics about free software, that on this subject, I am not going to give up, much less accept it.
Greetings from Argentina.
For those who comment on how they are going to know if it is from one country or another, I comment that helpers have a great avidity for IRC, and they usually look at the IP of those who ask and see the country, and it is not necessary to open a browser, with the command only geoip in console that I have and putting / exec -o geoip IP in xchat gives the result.
Many of the people with new nicknames or who do not know about the subject, do not ask for a cloak and it comes out singing about what country and even region they are from. And believe me they do ...
I just want to say, as a cybernetic testament in case any editor wants to block me, that from now on I change my Kubuntu for Fedora ... 😉
Regards!
Better use CentOS, since it is like Red Hat but with a repo that you can use for a lifetime.
After seeing all your comments, better stay in the subway….
Or in Windows Vista aero.
The person to whom the comment is directed uses Windows 8
Either way, the Aero served as the basis for the Metro interface. Anyway, as Tete said, stay in Metro.
That is not true, Modern UI was developed from scratch and the project is as old as Aero.
I was going to throw a comment too political, but I see that @nano is unsheathing his scythe for the off-topic and flamewar that was unleashed.
If you know that Fedora doesn't like helpers, use CentOS or another non-RedHat distro. No more inspiration to the creators of South Park, please.
Bad step gives Fedora ... the philosophy of free software is one of the few (the only?) Quasiutopia that survives in the world ... so many utopias have persecuted the thinking human being and think that of the few that he has been able to afford is precisely in this' digital world '…… I was always curious to know when governments would begin to distort the idea of the SL… .I say governments since companies with' recognized reputation 'have been trying since they noticed that the SL took away market share ………… reading this article generates a greater doubt: can the US government through its Court for the Surveillance of Foreign Intelligence (eg) tell this or that citizen of their country: look, like you you are our citizen, so in that software you are developing, you must include this procedure that allows me to obtain certain data, if you don't, are you in civil contempt? If that is possible for a government then they can end the SL …… if a certain restriction is accepted (as Fedora did) then they can end up applying more… .what do you think? Could the US government harass the developers of their country with their 'democratic' laws in such a way that not only the support is compromised, but the software itself?
that's why I don't use any distro that prohibits its use in some countries
eg: fedora, centos (it seems to me that this does the same) etc
It is incredible how everyone can talk about politics if they want to comment. I have never agreed with articles of this type in DesdeLinux precisely because of this, because now those of the right, the left, the north and the south come to the fore.
It is true, Fedora You have to abide by the laws of the United States. Debian too, Mozilla like that and yet they don't, or they do it in quotes. The point is, you cannot say that you are offering a product Free, Free, Community for everyone, when you are governed by laws such as those applied by the embargo. It is very contradictory.
As I said once, Fedora has the option of setting up its HEADQUARTERS, outside the USA, but come on, who do you think is going to do that? Do you think that the countries that are on the US black list are a priority for them? They are not. Therefore, as it has to comply with the laws (and you have to respect and understand that), I don't use it, period. Alternatives we have: ArchLinux, Mageia, LinuxMint, Ubuntu ... etc.
NOTE: In DesdeLinux We don't give a damn if you're right, left, up or down. We are not here to talk about cheap politics, because if there is one equation that never fails, it is: POLITICS + POLITICIANS = STINKING SHIT. In DesdeLinux Regardless of race, color, taste, sexual preferences or whatever, the only thing we all have in common is OpenSource, GNU/Linux and everything that brings us satisfaction derived from these.