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About our recent survey of the month on which is the best Linux distro, English-speaking blogs have generated quite a stir based on a article Posted by Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols in which he argues that Debian is no longer the reference it was before in the Linux world.
In this post I have tried to summarize the discussion, showing the different positions and positions, all of them very well argued and serious. (Without the insults and unsubstantiated criticism that usually abound in these types of discussions). It is a long article but worth reading in its entirety. When you finish it, don't forget to share your opinion with all of us! |
Why would Debian no longer have the relevance it once did?
Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols argues that:
“… It seems to me that Ubuntu, with its transition to Wayland, replacing the old graphical X server, and its efforts at a new company, Unity, is slowly transforming the Linux desktop and assuming the leadership that Debian once had. At the same time, Ubuntu continues to expand the Linux user base, while Debian remains a system used only by die-hard Debian fans. "
Vaughan-Nichols admits that "Debian is still important", but at the same time affirms that "Debian is increasingly irrelevant (or of little interest) to the vast majority of Linux users, especially in relation to Ubuntu and other derivative distros Debian ».
The other side of the coin
Let's face it: Debian is not known for being a very “common” user-friendly distro. Debian has always prioritized other goals over developing a distro, let's call it "popular." Instead, they always emphasized creating a stable, reliable distro that doesn't have the latest programs or updates but works perfectly. Although on paper its recognized stability could be considered a valid reason to attract many users, the truth is that most of us, by fashion or by default, prefer to have the latest applications and updates.
However, while it is true that some of Steven's observations are very valid, they are, essentially, from the point of view of the common and wild desktop user and not so much from the point of view of developers or server administrators, etc. In other words, the stability of Debian, which may not appeal to many desktop users, as it comes at the cost of not having the latest updates or "hot" applications, can be an excellent reason to motivate developers or administrators. to choose a solid, robust and reliable distro like Debian.
Taking this into account, we can see the greatest advantage of Linux over other operating systems: the freedom it gives us. In other words, the relevance of Debian, with its pros and cons, will depend on the tastes and needs of each one. It is up to everyone, then, to stay with Debian or use another distro. Just the possibility of making this choice is already an advantage over Windows, for example.
In the following, we will look at some of the main ideas in the discussion between those who are "for" and "against" Steven's claim about the "irrelevance" of Debian.
Without Debian there is no Ubuntu
It is nonsense to assert the irrelevance of Debian using Ubuntu as an example. If you are using Ubuntu (or Linux Mint, Mepis, etc.), you are actually using Debian with some improvements. According to a presentation given by one of the Debian Project Leaders (DPL), Stefano Zacchiroli, only 7% of Ubuntu comes from Canonical original projects or other non-Debian originated projects. Of the remainder, 74% Ubuntu are rebuilt Debian packages, and the remaining 18% are patched, optimized, or custom Debian packages.
Debian is the raw material used to build Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and a dozen Linux distros that are more modern looking and easier to use. However, the reason Ubuntu and the rest are able to release "make-up" Linux distros is because they can avoid doing the "dirty work" that Debian developers do. If the Debian project disappeared tomorrow, it would be a fatal blow to its derivative distros. Just look at the Linux distros tree to realize.
Debian never got its due credit. Yes, Ubuntu may have won over a wider audience, it may even have attracted new users to the Linux world, but it was Debian that inspired Mark Shuttleworth to create Ubuntu.
Also, it is not a zero-sum game. Ubuntu may be more popular every day and this does not necessarily mean that Debian is less so. On the contrary, it means that Ubuntu is being very effective in attracting new users. Surely, out of 100 Ubuntu users, very few have left Debian to switch to Ubuntu. The vast majority, fortunately, come from using Windows.
Lastly, it's not just Debian-derived distros that benefit from it. The Debian community is one of the most active when it comes to finding and fixing bugs in packages present in almost all distros, even the Linux kernel itself.
Community, not big companies
Debian never depended on massively reaching the operating systems market. As long as the Debian community continues to exist, Debian is going to be around for a long time.
Perhaps Debian's most important contribution to the Linux community is that it is not dependent on a financial corporation. If 2010 taught us anything, it is that having a mega-corporation as a sponsor can result in serious uncertainties at best and the death of the project at worst. The OpenSolaris community had to suffer from the shadow of Oracle to such an extent that the project ended in nothingness.
The Mandriva people didn't have much better. A company with serious financial problems that in 2010 had to get rid of a considerable part of its developers. The fork is likely to fare better, but its developers have had to hard-learn the value of independence.
Attachmate's purchase of Novell did not bring good results either. Attachmate was used as a Trojan horse by other companies (Microsoft, Apple, EMC, and Oracle) to seize much of Novell's patents. This, of course, raised great questions about the fate of SUSE and openSUSE.
Debian, for its part, is always moving forward ... even though some may be bothered that it does not move at the desired speed. The fate of the project is entirely in the hands of its community of developers who work under a social contract that ensures that the project prioritizes users and free software. Decisions are not made based on the need to sell a product in the market or on the whim of a "benevolent dictator." It's a give and take. Distros sponsored by large budget corporations tend to move faster, are much more susceptible to market demands, and have more predictable roadmaps and release dates. All of this is obtained at the expense of handing over much of the project's control to these corporations.
Debian is not just Linux
AgainstThose who like to tinker with installing operating systems and trying new things should be happy that Debian can be installed using FreeBSD. Sure, it's a breakthrough, but one that will only appeal to a few geeks.
Pros: The fact that Debian support FreeBSD is likely to be more valued when the latter is more popular, but even now it has some advantages over the Linux version, such as support for the ZFS file system.
Debian may not be the most visually accomplished Linux distro, and its packages may not be the most up-to-date, but it does offer some features that other distros don't include. For example, support for many architectures: PowerPC, PA-RISC, and MIPS-based machines.
Debian is free
Against: Starting with Squeeze, Debian will not include proprietary firmwares that came within the Linux kernel. They are still available for installation and incorporation if necessary, but they were removed by default and isolated in a "non-free" repository so that they can be identified and differentiated from the rest of the repositories more easily.
This may be very attractive or important to the extremist followers of Richard Stallman, but for most desktop users it will simply become a nuisance since they will not be able to use their Wi-Fi card correctly nor can they get the most out of their video card. , etc.
By doing this, Debian is satisfying its "extremist" fans and is not considering making things easy to add new users.
Pros: With the removal of all proprietary firmwares, Debian would be faithful to its social contract and its commitment to free software, granting users all the benefits that a completely free system provides.
Sources: Network world & server-watch & ZDNet: Linux & Open Source
At the beginning I used Ubuntu 10.10 because everything was automatic. However, from the beginning I wanted to be a Debian user, and I knew very well that I was only using Ubuntu temporarily, and that as soon as I learned that it was a repository and other things, I would move to Debian.
I only used Ubuntu for 3 months and with the release of Debian Squeeze I moved permanently and never to return to Ubuntu. At the beginning I did not know how to change the repositories, how to install the flash plugin and other things. I learned and in less than 2 months I already had a tutorial that I did for other users.
Is that everything I was doing in Debian to configure it I was writing down, and one day I simply published it on Taringa and my blog.
Although I'm still a novice, I already feel like an expert because at the beginning I didn't know anything. In fact I already installed Arch (it's easy), but Debian is the best for its philosophy, and also its quality.
If Linux were a chess game Debian could be irrelevant for the pawns, the ones who only browse, play mp3s and videos, but for the high-ranking chess pieces it is totally fundamental, those users who do what they want with their OS, everything this talking about domestic use because in servers there is no need to say. Now it is said that Debian does not have the latest software but only the stable-frozen branch, butTesting (which is very stable, as well as the final version of any distribution) and Unstable, if it has new packages.
If you want to learn more about Linux Install Debian.
If you want to continue being an End User Occupy Ubuntu, the system does everything so that you do not learn anything, this story reminds me of an OS that came by default on my Laptop when I bought it.
Debian is a long-term cultural investment. It is and will be universal thanks to the people who create and use it.
In favor: is it a roll on distro, or not?
As a Debian user I consider it appropriate to say that I started with Ubuntu, then I tried several distros, and I stick with Debian, however this falls strictly within the personal taste and needs of each person. I am an end user and I do not have the knowledge to say within which parameters Debian is better than Red Hat, or its free version, Fedora ... If I believe that those of us who are now on the planet are experiencing a profound transition, humanity is evolving and he is changing his values in search of a better model of life. When we talk about the current Debian situation, I do not think we are talking about something simple, rather I think that Debian is playing the key in something very deep, the way we want to live, how can a different economic system be generated, and can That Debian is one of the precursors to a future planetary economy, which we cannot even sketch yet, but if I absolutely believe that it is being developed, licenses such as Creative Commons for example, among others, indicates that something is moving and that those who they fear falling they are protecting themselves. Why not attack Red Hat, or Slackware which is the oldest active Linux distro? It is good that we are informed as much as possible and I think it is a good time to reflect on the Debian social contract http://www.debian.org/social_contract and look at others who are in the same quest to implement a different system http://creativecommons.org/tag/america-latina If I believe that the issue and the framework within which it is being presented is complex, the Internet is being threatened (SOPA Law) and it is not a simple issue of the good vs the bad, it is far from it, it is in my view, a matter of creating a new system that allows greater participation and greater opportunities for everything for all, but that implies profound changes in the current way of living and conceiving things. People who live off Debian, so to speak, are people, they have economic needs like everyone else, but they are seeking to solve them in another way. It is what from the outside and as an end user I firmly believe is happening.
Man, to say that Debian is irrelevant, although Steven J. Vaughan says it seems to me at least irrelevant, worth the redundancy. His opinion, however, seems to me to be taken into account. Ubuntu is very important, but it belongs to Canonical and it is already known that Canonical is from the business world, which demands profits. When benefits are generated, it means that there are costs and those costs have to be borne by the end user, or right? Debian is free and maintained by an international community. Thanks Debian. As long as Debian exists there will be free software. Debian will always be vigilant for this to be the case. Regarding the technical aspects, I have to say that I have tried both distributions and that both seem good to me. Neither is better or worse than the other. Keep in mind, Sras / Srs, that we are talking about free software and that this may mean that a user likes or likes one distribution more than another, which I think is perfectly useful and legitimate and that falls within the individual freedom of each one of being able to choose what you consider most beneficial for your personal interests. This is what differentiates us GNU / Linux users from the spawn of the windows. Long live GNU / Linux!
Thanks for your Comfusion I would love that in addition to your excellent DVD, you would take out a script where the packages of your excellent distro are selected.
The problem always starts from the same place: to disqualify the opposite.
I have been a great evangelizer of free software in my beginnings, now converted to an open-source user, why? Because although Debian is a great project worthy of any praise, people do not live only from ideologies, nor do they live only from technology. I am sick of this hatred of others, and this includes proprietary software. You have to find a middle ground, put politics aside and above all the staunch thinking that Debian is a guarantee of continuity for Free Software. No, it is not more so than other distributions or projects. In my opinion -because it is just that, an opinion: neither better nor worse-, neither Debian is the standard bearer of Free Software nor does it have to be the best distribution.
Perhaps, Mr. Vaughan has described a situation in an inaccurate way, from my point of view, although I do not think that Debian is irrelevant, I do think that it follows a development model that may be somewhat outdated. On the one hand, it tries to support so many architectures and amount of packages that it translates into a slow and expensive development, on the other hand, the testing process could be very useful in the beginning of the projects but that today, they are mature enough to follow another type of more agile development. Either way, Debian is Debian and people love it for what it is.
For comments like yours, both those who disqualify the ideology of the FSF and those who defend it tooth and nail, many people abandon Debian or any distribution related to Debian, for the simple fact that although the technical part may arrive To be admirable, the ideological part is not so much - not even remotely.
To top it off, the only thing missing is such fortunate comments as "Debian rules !!!", which lead nowhere and denote the lack of knowledge when dealing with these so hackneyed and boring topics, of which today I have allowed myself the luxury of wasting time making them see that both are still fanatics who make computing their life, because it is nothing else.
Yes ... I have an intermediate relationship with the FSF. I respect her, I think she is
necessary to exist. But, on the other hand, sometimes batons are sent
important. Anyway ... every institution is made of humans ... haha. What
GREAT final thought.
A hug! Paul.
On July 7, 2011 16:43 PM, Disqus
<> wrote:
Ha ha ha exactly !!!
Debian rules !!!
I can only say that this guy is a moron, that Debian is irrelevant? Please! I am an Ubuntu user since version 8.04 I currently use 10.10 and it is comfortable and it looks great BUT, recently I have developed a huge interest in testing Debian, (partly thanks to the hasty canonical statements with that of unity and other chi *** deras) and if I have not done it yet it is due to lack of time, but do not doubt that I will do it as soon as I have time, anyway, I think that from Ubuntu I already learned what I had to learn and it is time to expand my horizons and fly to new distros, and I think Debian is a good start and a VERY RELEVANT one.
Anyway, I'll still give Ubuntu a chance with its unity, and I hope it also has the option to install gnome 3, but if it doesn't have the latter, and the unity doesn't fall for me, I'll just say: «Say hello to my little Debian »xD
That "must be absolutely free" philosophy is utter stupidity. It is like pretending to live today isolated from the "bad guys of the system
In my humble opinion, I was a LinuxMint user, and I opted to try debian, I am an average user in terms of Linux, many people prefer to use ubuntu for convenience or ease, the truth is I installed Debian Squeeze and without problem working 100% obviously as a user of cas because I use proprietary software but it is everyone's decision.
The change from Mint to Debian was because Mint is not so stable debian and when putting recent applications it crashed the computer, when trying to have more than 2 Desktops to choose from, it also crashed, with debian it brings them by default and you can run them at pleasure .
Debian, is a Linux column, but why is it one of the longest? In addition to remaining firm in its social commitment and its Idea, stability before modernity. Therefore they can say what they want about this distro but they need something more to even think that it will no longer exist.
I agree with some who say that the resistance to Debian on the part of the common user is the lack of information, I have been a Debian user for almost a year. The problem has been that when it comes to incentivizing new users (windoseros xD) it has always been by ubuntu, an example was that in free software conferences any demonstration or promotion was done through ubuntu and if they came to give away cds, ps guess what distro ... well ubuntu !!!, then being this the first contact makes the user resist the change (such as going from windows to gnu / linux).
In any case, the fact of choosing Debian or Ubuntu or any other distro, as they say a lot is a matter of taste, I used Ubuntu in my beginnings but only in virtual machines, when I decided to definitely install free software on my computer, Debian was chosen Although the little I knew about it is that it was more stable, and many problems that it has given me, but all that depends on what each one wants and their desire to discover and try new things.
As an image that I found says:
«Good things come to those who… wait !!!
salu2 and long live Debian !!!!
I am a recent debian user, and so far it is really very good. Before using ubuntu for a couple of years.
I think that ubuntu offers some facilities, such as a simpler installation, touch a little less, not having to know certain things (almost like in windows)
but I think debian is really more stable, and not only in the stable branch, I'm using testing and it works really well. With stable, I mean that those strange things that usually happen in ubuntu do not happen, such as hanging that the panels disappear because yes, after a while capable you should format (it is really simple to format, not like in windows, but really annoying, it reminds me of bad times: P) and things like that.
as the packages are not the newest ... it may be, it is more I suppose it is, but I am not so sorry, not now. Maybe a few years ago the difference was felt more, I think now the linux programs are much more advanced and you don't need the last one to have something that is useful for something. although I wonder how long it will take to get firefox 4 (or actually its replacement iceweasel 4) in debian, it can be done manually easily (you google and exit touch, you don't even have to compile anything: D)
Debian also lacks a bit of visual touch, but you add the ubuntu theme (finally ubuntu is good for something: P) you fiddle with it a bit and it looks pretty good, hehe.
so my conclusion is that debian is quite relevant, since it is really a very nice option for the user. It is not complicated at all, although you have to play just a little bit (less than what it takes to install all the programs in windows, I assure you) and the visual part is easily fixed and as for the update part, I think with testing and mixing a little with the experimental repos for special cases, what a gem
I think so, Debian in general terms has become irrelevant as a distribution. But that does not mean that all their programs are good and as they are free software they can be used and transformed by whoever wants.
I think Debian is more than anything a source of projects and history. Not a distribution to use.
It is my humble opinion.
I liked your comment. I believe that the contribution of any distro should not be underestimated. Ubuntu is very good at attracting new users and immersing them in the Linux world. Debian, on the other hand, has a strength that is its stability, which makes it ideal for servers or for those who value that aspect in their desktop OS, etc.
Cheers! Paul.
Debian is still as important as CentOS, OpenSUSE, Gentoo or Slackware, in my opinion the best of all
Personally, I consider Debian to be everything, if it is true that it currently has a hidden, dark, holy grail role, but it is also true that while Canonical makes a tremendous effort to remain active on everyone's lips, the Debian community is more relaxed. They are different priorities.
Personally, I think Debian has been asleep on social media for too long, although in the last few months I am seeing a rebirth. I bet you that in the next year we have the answer, surely Debian regains its throne.
I don't think I understood myself: DD
Well, summarizing. Debian is actually an example of continuous work, Canonical is an example of that work, yours and a major media campaign. 🙂
At that point the Debian community has slackened a lot, in a way it had rejected it outright, but that has changed, at least my feeling is that since the appointment of the new Debian leader it is beginning to change.
I think now I explain myself.
Debian's problem is the Debianites ...
I totally agree. Debian cannot be irrelevant, hence its importance is so important that it simply cannot disappear. I think Debian will still be there when the rest are gone. Debian is one of the pillars in the development of GNU / Linux systems and now it will also be in FreeBSD. For me Debian is, as they say themselves: The universal operating system.
why do we insist that debian do what ubuntu does ???, I am a user of both and they are doing great for me, each in his position and in his responsibility, I have a server running with debian that in a YEAR not It has not given a problem, if I have to install an operating system on an old computer it does not give me problems either, except for some configurations that can drive you crazy, Ubuntu however is very good for a workstation, although sometimes it overwhelms running so much With the new versions, I think a middle ground would be fine, every year a new version of the distro not six months like Ubuntu nor two years like Debian ………………… ..
By the way, someone has wondered where canonical is going ??? Let's hope it comes to fruition.
It's true, they are stupid for having ideals and trying to be consistent and honest with them. We all know that ideals and principles are only for casual chatter and not something you really have to follow in life. You have to do like everyone else, we say one thing but do the other. If there weren't so many idealists, the world would be a much better place!
«Only 7% of Ubuntu becomes […] Of the rest, 74% of Ubuntu are […] and the remaining 18% are […]»
7% + 74% + 18% = 99%
Sorry for the off-topic comment, but I think there is a 1% floating in some other dimension.
(I know you understand the idea, but it does not hurt to correct or clarify. No offense).
regards
It is the 1% lost in the ether. Haha… I don't really know. I relied on the data that the guy gave, but you are right that the sum does not close. Anyway, get the idea ...
Hug! Paul.
The headline is a bit sensational, debian is the building blocks of other Linux distros, it allows the installation of non-free code, but the most important thing is that it allows full installation free, I prefer to be more up to date and use the best proprietary drivers so far , but I believe that the possibility of "everything free" must exist precisely so that the proprietary code remains, at least free. In the event that "free everything" did not exist and one became dependent on a single line of proprietary code, that owner could demand money since there is no alternative and dismantle the entire ecosystem. The mere existence of the alternative, and you have forgotten to add Hurd, that although its development is slow, like Haiku's, its approach is much more powerful than the nix that we enjoy, in turn much more powerful than the MS that predominate. When hurd matures it will have the great advantage of Debian's “free everything” to which more efficient proprietary drivers will be added and surely all the advances of Ubuntu and others. By the way, you have to take a look at the next Comfusion DVD that seems to be the best Ubuntu on steroids.
Honestly, I'm happy to use Debian if I can make my Ubuntu desktop look like now with Docky, conky and Screenlets. With the programs and the rest, I think I am very good and it is not always necessary to have the latest version. In any case, I compile and go (ex- Windows user, look what I became ... !!)
But I think it is a discussion like saying that one's mother is less important than oneself. Without it, the other would not have been possible and this is literal because it is not productive that a company eager to bring a product to market must start all the way from scratch and Ubuntu is 7% original.
Debian / Ubuntu… Ubuntu / Debian… You love me, you don't love me?
Gentlemen, in my humble opinion, I believe that the freedom to choose what we want the most is priceless over the technical elements.
I used Debian for about two years, for work reasons I moved away from Linux and a little less than a year ago I got back on the road to salvation 😉 For reasons that are not relevant, I decided to install Ubuntu and I found the wonderful experience that my HP laptop was 100% functional in about two hours.
In my previous experience with Debian, I remember it took about a month for my desktop PC to function acceptably (the hardware on the machine was average). After dealing with hundreds of problems, I had a machine whose useful life ended when my motherboard decided to retire early.
Today I have something of both, the solidity, stability and confidence that the Debianite community behind Ubuntu gives me as well as the ease of use, friendliness and the updates that the latter offers me ... should I ask for more? I don't think so .
If there is something I have never been able to understand, it is because those of us who use Linux argue and fight among ourselves defending issues that are more about personal taste than anything else. I agree with Esparrelinux, I use both, in the company servers we have Debian, looking the other way would not make sense, but why am I going to complicate things for my employees or myself using Debian on E / T? A combination of both systems is ideal, for everything else there is ... is there something else?
Greetings to everyone from Venezuela 🙂
Good point Marcelo, indisputably that is the problem xD, if there were as many debianitas as there are devils in freebsd !!!, hahaha, nothing, each one with the sauce that they like the most ...
Simple as saying that the valuation has a tolerance of as many percent, in statistics not 100% reliability ……
says: Against: Starting with Squeeze, Debian will not include proprietary firmwares that came inside the Linux kernel. I THINK I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING !!!, and don't tell me that the comment was
destined to the use and massification of the SL THE USE AND THE MOST ATTRACTIVE ARRIVAL TO USERS MUST BE WITH CONSCIOUSNESS. I ask ... in these times to have a conscience is to be an extremist, for whom, greetings from the south. alunado.
I agree with the article. Debian is very relevant and will continue to be even if there are a lot of people who use Ubuntu.
For my Debian = Ubuntu,
for me Ubuntu is = Debian Peroo Maquillado !!!
I used to be an ubuntu user but I came across debian and got into it, it's a matter of taste simply, and if it is easy, ubuntu helped me a lot to understand the GNU / Linux environment and motivate me to install debian, after all already knowing The way it works, it is not difficult for me to make the Wi-Fi network work or my graphics card as you say, even for those who have just started in Debian if it can be difficult
I honestly do not see the case in discussing these issues among those of us who use linux. I think that in the vast majority of us there is a collective consciousness that constantly tells us and reminds us of the great advantages of using Linux. Here there will always be freedom to choose. The rest is simply irrelevant. Everyone is happy using the distro they want and when something in their distro does not satisfy them, they simply update or install a package or change the distro depending on their needs.
Proprietary systems still reign in the world and unfortunately humans are very reluctant to change. This discussion should be carried a little longer taking into account the psychological aspects of the users.
There are many factors that go into the decision of which OS to use. If one is started in windows, for example, for reasons of customs and habits, one will look for the closest thing it can find. And this covers a wide range of features, from graphics to antivirus. It's funny for me to hear questions like what if you don't use antivirus in Linux, how do you do to avoid having viruses?
In the end and for me, the solution would be. For reasons of convenience I prefer Ubuntu, although to make my pc work I have to install proprietary software. Anyway, I already paid for the parts that come in the PC so that gives me the right to use it.
If I need to get serious, I look for a solution that doesn't give me problems or fall apart all the time. A great distro like Debian is great for getting serious because it gives you excellent stability.
I'm a bit new to linux and I still haven't quite left windows and not because I don't want to, but because I have the need to use it. If I could isolate myself I would do it and completely undo the proprietary software but we are gregarious beings and we cannot live in isolation. In the same way, much of it we build, we do it thinking of others to meet mass needs. And while we are gregarious, we will always need each other as well as what they produce.
As long as someone doesn't use Windows, Debian and Ubuntu are perfect!
Debian is now more than anything more pure and free than ever, who attacks it is who does not know what debian is and the great contributions it has made.
@ubuntizingtheplanet
Now it has a totally free kernel, Debian cares about the integrity, ecosystem, stability and freedom of GNU / Linux and keeping it the way it should be and its original purpose.
I know you are an Ubuntu user and you are somewhat blinded but, Canonical lately their priorities is to bring more users to Ubuntu and make it the closest thing to MacOS X, the more the better. Canonical is not interested in GNU, and very little in Linux.
Canonical has also declared the null importance of freedom and has supported privatization initiatives.
@Marcelo Nobrega
I ask respect for those of us who do value freedom, if you think freedom is stupid then I don't know what you're doing here, you can't be half free or half slave. you are either free or not, and what Debian did is not leave things by halves.
I share your opinion 100% !!!
A hug! Paul.
I think what Steven has said is totally true if we take into account "Debian is increasingly irrelevant (or of little interest) to the vast majority of Linux users, especially in relation to Ubuntu and other Debian-derived distros", It is very clear that it refers to the majority of Linux users, and this has to do with leadership, something that Debian does not give or at least does not demonstrate as often and has little to do with whether or not it supports more architectures or whether Some or many distros are based on Debian, it is clear that it means that it is losing ground in front of several distros and that it gives the appearance of being asleep at least in recent months, from the analysis that without Debian there is no Ubuntu I would not so sure, do you think Ubuntu could not follow its path alone or simply be based on another distro? I think it could, by the way what if I don't like it is that users are labeled for following an ideology that you you don't think of calling them "extremists" or calling them I send a business owner a "benevolent dictator" just because you don't like him, I think you have lacked impartiality in your comments.
Juans, I think everything you propose is very good. Your position on Debian is, to say the least, debatable (in fact, that's the debate I tried to capture in the post). Regarding the adjectives: 1) it was simply a joke (a dictator is something much more serious ... I assure you that I know exactly what I am talking about: I am a graduate in political science), 2) in any case, the adjective does not have much do with Mark as a person but with the Ubuntu build process. In Debian, almost everything is decided communally. On Ubuntu (and on several other distros) this is not the case. Simply that.
A big hug and thank you for joining the debate!
Cheers! Paul.
Hello;
I'm Marco A. Pollolinux, creator of ComFusion, a distro based on Ubuntu and therefore Debian, the one who pronounces such nonsense is a;
a) Bobo
b) Misinformed
c) he simply wants to create a stir, (this last option I don't know very well because, with which we are left with the a and with the b)
Conclusion, some very sad statements, you just have to take any Ubuntu-based distro, and press F1 at startup and then F10 ...
And read the part that says "based on Debian" ...
GAME OVER!!
DEBIAN IS NOT IRRELEVANT, what happens to him is that most computer users consider it as something only for programmers and other computer gurus, something difficult to use and complicated to handle, which is a marketing error nothing else, and over time I think that those of us who have managed Debian since its inception like it to be considered something like the elite, but the truth is that the only problem that Debian has is that it is "STABLE UNTIL BORED" .
I still have not found a problem installing Debian on past and current computers, nor have I found any company that had problems with their programs, they all run perfectly and if so many distributions based on UBUNTU were to really consider what their base is, they would see that it is DEBIAN in reality.
I very much agree with what you say. Long live Debian!
should always be should ...
Well said!
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"Whenever someone affirms that two plus two equals four and an ignorant responds that two plus two equals six, a third arises who, for the sake of moderation and dialogue, ends up concluding that two plus two equals five." (José Prat)
Since when is wanting some freedom to be an extremist?
I find this entry a bit absurd. Things like:
* «Let's be honest: Debian is not known for being a very friendly distro for the“ common ”user»
* "Debian's stability, which may not appeal to many desktop users, as it comes at the expense of not having the latest updates or" on-the-fly "applications"
They show quite ignorance on the subject. And the testing branch, experimental?
That stability doesn't appeal to desktop users? Black legend that stability is only for servers. Inconsistencies like these are only valid so that people today do not leave Ubuntu, which although it has been a distribution that has helped the development of GNU / Linux on the desktop, it is not by far the most reliable, the most stable , nor the "banner" of the community.
I agree with Nader. In my case, I am a newbie to Linux and I have Debian Wheezy installed without any problem, neither installation nor handling, beyond the classic problems / errors of having been with Windows for many years ... To decide on Debian 7, stability was precisely one one of the features that I value the most. To this day I still think the same. I am a home user who uses the normal features of a pc, nothing fancy, browsing, mail, information, etc.
Of course, I perceive on the Internet that there are other distros with more active forums and with many more blogs to raise doubts, problems. I wish that Debian had so many, but hey, there is always the forum on this website for which I am very grateful because they have helped me at some time.
I will continue with my Debian 7 and trying to learn a little more every time ...
regards
This seems to me to be part of the "divide and conquer" I have been doing very well with Ubuntu since we met. My friend Miguel is doing very well Debian ...
I love that Linux exists. Health!
This article is over 2 years old.
Debian forever, I must say that I also started with Ubuntu there when I was in version 8 thanks to Illasaron to Jesús Conde in particular thanks to his magnificent video tutorials, but as every elitist always seeks knowledge, I have to say that to achieve this it was necessary to migrate, Then at the Institute "IDAT" I fiddled with CentOS but before opting for Fedora and in parallel I went with this Definitive GNU / Linux Debian that in my humble experience I have reaffirmed that it is bulletproof although I do not deny that it gave me certain problems but already reckless and in all this time from 2009 until today I have tried OpenSUSE, SlackWare, WhiteBox, Mint, Ubuntu and the latest fashions but as a matter of investigating and then recommending the ease of each one trying to evangelize "win2sos" of it I have to say that thanks to Beryl and emerald in their time I managed to convince even the most reluctant to move to the GNU / Linux world and with many success stories but themselves, like me and co n certain maturity we agree that Debian is and will be the operating system par excellence and reference in this world, of course I say for average users from now on, but without detracting from the derivatives and their great effort to achieve and make known that no There are only windows, I am subject to criticism of course but I had to say what I think, greetings from Lima-Peru. r4r.
Post Data: Gnome-Shell a 'fuck'. but thanks to that I like Arch.;).
Personally, it made me laugh, damn it, but since there are people who like to appear at the cost of making a fool of themselves. Not wanting to offend but I really laughed out loud. They should die and they all rot together.