After the discussion started on the mailing list of the developers of Xfce about porting the next versions to gtk3Some of them have been carrying out some tests and here we can see the results offered:
Private + Shared = RAM used Program
7.2 MiB + 2.1 MiB = 9.3 MiB thunar (gtk3, 15 files)
5.2 MiB + 1.5 MiB = 6.7 MiB thunar (gtk2, 15 files)
10.9 MiB + 2.1 MiB = 13.1 MiB thunar (gtk3, 1680 files)
9.1 MiB + 1.5 MiB = 10.6 MiB thunar (gtk2, 1680 files)
5.6 MiB + 781.5 KiB = 6.3 MiB xfrun4 (gtk3)
2.8 MiB + 1.2 MiB = 4.0 MiB xfrun4 (gtk2)
6.0 MiB + 943.0 KiB = 6.9 MiB xfce4-appfinder (gtk3)
3.1 MiB + 1.4 MiB = 4.5 MiB xfce4-appfinder (gtk2)
As can be seen, using gtk3 applications consume a little more RAM, so you may wonder: Is it worth porting Xfce to this version of gtk? Although the difference is not high, if we add all the open applications, the consumption of the next versions of this could be increased. Desktop Environment.
On the other hand, continue to develop on gtk2 it's like going against development or logical evolution (and necessary in any case).. Actually, for sure there is still much to see and I have many doubts about all this. How optimized will the code of the same application be in gtk2 y gtk3? Would it be feasible to use other graphic libraries like Qt or like those of e17? This last question was even commented on by the creator of xfce, Olivier foundan, who said:
… Okay, GNOME has GTK +, KDE has QtHow does Enlightenment / EFL make EFL different from the other two?
There is a constant in X11, every X11 developer has a need to write a new window manager or toolkit at some point 😛
(… And some resist better than others…)
… However, moving to gtk3 would be a natural step, and work compared to moving to a completely different set of tools. But if we can reach a consensus, why not? (Although I like Gtk) ...
Anyway, for now I'm happy with my Xfce 4.10 with gtk2. Look at the consumption of my PC with Firefox, Thunderbird, Pidgin, Audacious, Port, and other applications (htop ... etc) open:
Well I think that even so a pc with few resources such as 1GB of RAM should go fast (I hope so). 🙂
that you use to see in the terminal the status of the pc greetings.
htop
It would not be better to modify and use e17 and give a change to xfce, I understand that gtk3 is developed for gnome so xfce would still depend on it. I didn't like Gnome 3, but xfce looks more and more like it (I think).
For me XFCE is spectacular as it is.
The best is that Desdelinux It's full of blogs about XFCE!!!!!!!
That's great 🙂
((I think I use Linux because XFCE exists)), well I'm exaggerating, but going back to the subject, Gtk3 is not necessary, and my little experience with it made it clear that it had little customization and (as mentioned) it is somewhat more heavy and clumsy .
<• XFCE
😛
—
Is it so bad that I consume a little more ram?
The one I've been wanting for a long time is E17.
Tried Bodhi Linux and didn't like it. I've been using xfce in sidux for a while, but with the debian GNU / Linux sources. I wait for version 4.10 to be uploaded to sid.
Thanks for the info, it seems that the way forward in xfce is still not very clear, interesting debate
Impressive performance you have on your pc. GTK3 does not beat me at all, it has always seemed heavier to me.
every computer currently in this year 2012 .. should have at least 1 or 3 gb of ram .. and a 64 bit processor ..
if not ... welcome to 2012 ...
And those who do not have that configuration, can they contact you to update them?
I'm not going to tell you that your approach is wrong or right. Better consider your attitude and reflect on the natural resources that are used to produce new equipment, as well as the social impact of paying low wages for its manufacture in third world countries, and the need that we have been created as consumers to be up to date .
I invite you to make this reflection. For help material, search YouTube for the "planned obsolescence" video. Regards.
Carlos-Xfce
totally agree .. I have that documentary and also all of the zeitgeits ... I am clear on all this!
Hmm ... it would be very interesting if they were based on the E17 libraries, although personally I think it would not stop being an experiment and I don't think they have enough time and resources to get something like this forward, it would simply be a: is used or not used period. As for GTK3 and GTK2, I am very sorry but whether it seems to us or not, it is what it is, GTK2 will not be the basis of XFCE for life and I do not see very viable waiting for the GTK3 libraries to stabilize to make the leap ¬.¬.
The healthiest, most natural and obvious thing would be to update to the current framework, unless you want to switch to QT, which is beyond showing the robustness and stability that it has.
Well, on my non-2012 computer, I need it to have something fast, which made me decide to go from Ubuntu 11.10 to Xubuntu entirely. Unity, while nice and useful, made the notebook run slower than 11.04. I'm happy how Xfce is, and I would appreciate it if it kept less RAM consumption as it is. Isn't there anything other than gtk3 that maintains that performance?
Greetings.
you have to update dad .. don't expect linux to spend a lifetime spoiling your hardare .. there comes a point where there are so many new things to support that the old is no longer worth bearing ..
the world of technology is like this ... it is constantly changing and always renewing itself ...
Linux no longer supports hardware from 6 or 5 years ago .. not worth it .. they have more important things to worry about such as Core I3, I5, I7 etc. .. RAM DDR2, DDR3 2 or more GB ...
sorry if I'm being annoying ... actually I'm not saying it with bad intentions but I speak the truth .. Linux rather does a long time in carrying that load of drivers and obsolete hardware support for about 2 years .. until there comes a point in that drops the support and is dedicated to new technologies.
But it is not the fault of linux or windows or apple ..
but of the economic system .. which is based on the rules of consumerism .. of program obsolescence .. everything has to be broken, damaged and thrown away so that consumption is maintained and we have a "fluid" economy ¬¬
Obviously the latter is a total lie .. there are clean and renewable energies .. there is recycling, self-sustainability and development .. only that these advances are mostly suppressed by the great elites that control the markets and the world. .
You're right ... I'd rather repair than discard. And I have more important things to spend my money on right now, like feeding my family. For now, I am very happy with my Xubuntu 12.04 with Xfce 4.10, which runs very well here 🙂
Well said ..
Well, less sales, equal to less economic prosperity, equal to fewer jobs (even with garbage salaries), equal to recession, equal to companies close.
Very logical.
Exactly, as economists say, we must seek infinite economic growth and keep looking forward.
That of carrying an infinite growth on a finite planet is bullshit that sooner or later will explode.
@FerreryGuardia, we live in a society where countries with economic growth triumph. The word recession is frowned upon. Tomorrow doesn't matter, now matters. Hopefully we won't see the big bang, just economic bubbles bursting.
For humans to become extinct is not the end of the world. The planet is finite but humanity is more finite. On the other hand, human stupidity is infinite, you should already know.
A bit offtopic, but not all economists defend infinite growth, many economists promote that inflation should be reduced even if unpopular measures have to be taken.
One of the most widely used definitions of economics, that of Lionel Robbins, takes into account scarcity.
As for moving to gtk3, one would wait to see if the performance can be improved. In any case it seems to be the logical evolution, and in my opinion I think it should be used if:
1. Provides features or functions that cannot be implemented in gtk2
2. Division can be avoided. If many programs are passed to gtk2 and xfce is not passed, we would have a cocoa of libraries and programs. There is enough with qt and gtk
Windóusico sorry I told you but YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG ..
what you just said is what many shameless economists repeat and thanks to them we are as we are ...
the infinite economy DOES NOT EXIST ...
Whoever preaches an infinite economy on a finite planet that is (where minerals and natural resources are not ETERNAL and they wear out) ... is either a madman or an economist ...
and another thing, the countries that according to you are "succeeding" are not those of "economic growth", they are those that promote research, self-sustainability, the development of new technologies and clean and renewable energies ... with the aim and purpose of break the consumer cycle .. ¬¬
@algoban, inflation has nothing to do with economic growth, you are talking about price growth. There is an idea called "sustainable development" that can only be achieved by reducing economic production and that is advocated by very few. When I write "the economists" I mean those who follow established ideas (Lionel Robbins was no exception).
@ jamin-samuel, my comments are sarcastic / ironic. Now, there is a lot of truth in what I write. R&D is used to better exploit resources, both renewable and non-renewable. The richest people in the world are not scientists and neither are those who rule countries. Without money, there is no worthwhile R&D. We are consuming resources well above the regeneration level. As long as they don't find the stupidity gene and how to inactivate it… we will become extinct faster than Neanderthal man.
@ Windóusico
Inflation has nothing to do with growth? Nothing?
Macroeconomics book:
http://ompldr.org/vZHJ3cQ/Selección_001.png
I don't know how many economists you have read. Within the economy there are many branches, what usually divide economists is the degree of state intervention. Those who do not believe in intervention (I suppose those you mean), see Mises or Hayek, do not speak of infinite economics, what they say is that with the actions of each person the market regulates itself, and it is the state that produces injustices . Be careful, I am not giving my vision in this regard, nor evaluating their statements, they are objective data.
@ jamin-samuel Tell me which economist preaches infinite economics, name me one. The most widely used definition of economics takes into account the scarcity of resources. It gives me the feeling that you say it to see if it sneaks in because what you said is made up of set phrases, but you do not give objective data or arguments.
Avoid answering me with "you have no idea" as you did with windousico, that is not an argument, it is an ad hominem fallacy.
P.S. I am especially sorry for the administrators of desdelinux that this has led to this topic. If this discussion bothers you, it is over for me.
algoban here you have all the data you need:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLGFZDiwRs
(activate button CC and select Spanish)
Zeitgeist? really?. I expected something more elaborate. That documentary has neither head nor tail. He has been criticized by the vast majority of the scientific community for his nonsense.
It is a product like Coca-Cola, the Twilight books, or Bieber's music. Something easy, without science, without logic and attractiveness (conspiracyism).
Then we say that television is shit and we swallow without any critical spirit what any publicist puts through our eyes. To swallow this documentary is not to consume, is it? Anyway, I retire.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-skepticism-reveals
go well away then !! ¬¬
ahahaha it makes me laugh a lot .. people believe that the zeitgeits movement and the venus project are the same thing ahahahahahaha
project venus is today's science fiction movie .. zeitgeits is something else!
@algoban, I mean that economic growth is not equal to price growth (inflation). Inflation is an economic term, of course it has to do with the economy. There is no point in discussing that.
Economists say many things, they do not say directly that we should seek infinite growth (they are not so stupid). But all his models base success on economic growth. If you lose production you sink. To keep the economy healthy you need to grow "ad infinitum." Something impossible in the long term of course. Do not dwell on the free market or the issue of scarcity, I do not mean that. Surely I am not explaining myself well, let's see if you understand this better:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/movil/noticias/2011/09/110929_economia_capitalismo_occidente_tim_jackson_az.shtml
o
http://www.conexionnatural.org/crecimiento-economico-infinito-%C2%BFsolucion-o-problema/
And since we are not in a blog about economics, I'll take your "for my part it's over." I will do the same.
Would it be too much to ask to continue with the Post thread? In the end, no one here will be able to fix the economy 😀
@ Windóusico If you want to follow me by mail, that's fine for me so we don't bother.
@ jamin-samuel I'll leave if the blog administrators ask me to. It is his house, and I respect his rules.
in the end everyone has to update their hardware every 3 years .. otherwise they will not have support for anything and they will be obsolete xD ahahahahaha
I am updating by pieces (the typical tower). When I buy a computer, the most important thing for me is the motherboard / motherboard. It depends on that choice whether or not he can improve the team over the years. Now, as laptops are carried, things get complicated. For laptop I already have my netbook (with KDE by the way :-P).
The truth is that 1 or 2 GB Ram computers are quite affordable, and if you want to use one with less memory there are specialized SOS. If you don't take the trouble to update your PC, you can't expect everything to run. Xfce on gtk2 or gtk3 is lightweight. There is no point in the obsession with extreme lightness if a browser with a few tabs open is as expensive as the entire desktop environment. Also xfce has a slow development, you could expect gtk3 to mature.
When I have money, I will upgrade my notebook. For now I can't do that.
It seems to me that the best thing is to keep moving forward, and I think that for now the natural evolution is gtk3. I'd be willing to sacrifice some ram 🙂
Well guys, I join the debate, just to remind you that there are dark spots on the planet, where Celerones are still used at 400 / 533MHz, with 256MB of RAM, where having Ubuntu 12.04 installed is not a very good idea that Let's say.
I know that the world has already advanced, that things [programs, systems, technology, and even women {otherwise there would be no silicone, and hair dyes}], but please, be patient, guys, let's also think about those poor devils who spend their days trying to improve the world from their desks with those tremendous affectionately called "little gadgets."
Remember that we all go through that stage. The idea is to always optimize, to do more with less, if we cannot, we are on board, but, palante and full :-).
Indeed partner ... the typical example is elav ... you ... I don't know about you, but elav has a Pentium 4 Celeron D, with 1GB of RAM, and from that RAM it takes out 128MB for video.
Unity, KDE4, are viable alternatives for many yes ... but, if you have a computer from 9 years ago, it is impossible.
And precisely this is where Linux takes all the glory, because it has so much diversity that finding (or adapting) a distro to work with hardware from a decade ago is not complex, while Windows every time it releases a version, it is to consume more ...
I like it 🙂
I installed SliTaz on 256 ram for an acquaintance, he is happy, for what he does "feisbuc" and "interné" as he says, it works for him. He also recovered a team that he planned to discard.
I love these xfce articles, I am very interesting and unusual. Qt, e17? Why not? It is not crazy that at some point a version comes out.
E17 is good but it makes me a little dizzy. And as for me, I prefer Gtk2 not for performance, I don't like Gtk3 directly, but about tastes ...
My pc is 4 and a half years old and I have 3Gb of RAM and although I have a 64-bit CPU (AMD64X2 3600+) I use Archlinux in its version of 32 and as an environment LXDE + Fluxbox.
As the world is, people are not there for many expenses, in Spain a mid-range PC costs € 500 on average (buying a brand name in a large store)
It is clear that with each new version of certain parts you will be asked to have a PC with more resources, but there are many alternatives that are not heavy at all like XFCE.
It is clear that if there is no other remedy, they will go to GTK3 as it will happen to me (I can already use GTK3 with the latest versions of PyGobject, but for now I will continue with GTK2)
It's good that you have at least a 3-year-old PC, Cristobal colon brought mine when he found America (although some say that Eric el Rojo had it when he lived in Scandinavia) the question is ... what do you see in Flubox that you can't have with Openbox , I also use LXDE only that in Debian 6.0 although I decided to try the Xubuntu 12.04 that I got recently only that until now I only put it from the CD in a Celeron at 1.66 MHz and 256 RAM
I say it personally, I know that there are many here who like Xfce as it is ...
But for me it would be incredibly great if Xfce and Enlightenment came together in one thing. Xfce has a great variety of applications and a great development; Enlightenment is kind of stagnant but it has a great base of libraries (EFL, Evas) with which you can do great things without affecting system performance. I believe that Xfce and Enlightenment have a common goal, therefore it would seem excellent to me if these two projects were to merge because they would complement each other perfectly.
+10
It is quite annoying to meet people who do not follow the thread of the topics proposed by our friends on this blog, for example, one hopes to learn about a certain topic and they talk about the beatles, the climate of the planet Mars, the worldwide economy.
Come on Why you if you are talking about the topic of the post ?. Healthy irony your comment.
It's something like "I complain that people complain about anything silly."
If you read my penultimate comment I said I was sorry for the offtopic.
Apologies accepted.
what a troll
Reading all the comments, Diego's comment seems very logical to me, more would be gained if people only limited themselves to giving their opinion on the proposed topics, it would seem rather that the troll is Miguel, he is totally misplaced.
Hello, a somewhat offtopic question, on the site there is an article that talks about the configuration of SAMBA both to read Linux-Win and Win-Linux files and its integration with XFCE - Thunar? I can't get anything done about it. Regards.
If you have great money left over, update every 3 years but don't tell others that they have to do the same. I have had my Toshiba laptop for 4 years and the desktop for 6 years and I will have them for many more years, until they stop working. I can live to spare with computers with only 1 GB of memory if they are only for domestic use you can perfectly have computers with more than 3 years. There will always be some Linux lighter than the others and in terms of support it is not essential or essential to have the updated hardware drivers, you can live perfectly without the updated drivers in a few years the drivers are usually stable and they do not need to be continuously updated . To give you an example, on the desktop I still have a floppy drive and Xubuntu 12.04 recognizes it perfectly and works wonderfully, I don't need the kernel module that handles floppy drives to be updated in 2012.
There is a lot of posh with money that believes in the obligation to show off and force others to buy a new computer every 3 years, there are those who have the money for other things.